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Author Topic: Vosper Crash Tender Colour???  (Read 12384 times)

loinerlad

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Vosper Crash Tender Colour???
« on: April 18, 2012, 07:46:33 pm »

Hi,

Hope someone can help me with this one!

I have just bought an old Vosper RAF Crash Tender which is in need of restoration, it has been painted white by the previous owner but I am wanting to put it back to its original colours. I believe the hull on a crash tender is black and red traditionally but can anybody tell me the name or even better the RAL number of the grey / blue colour used on the superstructures?

Or even a very good match to this colour?

Thanks in advance

Chris  :-))
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raflaunches

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Re: Vosper Crash Tender Colour???
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2012, 08:16:07 pm »

Hi Chris

You are completely correct with regards to the hull colours, black upper, red lower and in some cases a white waterline.
For the superstructure colour which can be described as RAF Barley grey (don't quote me on that, could be something else) I have used a variety of paints in the past.  The best I came up with involved using dulex house hold paint and mixing it to match the colour but the nearest match in the modelling world would be Tamiya XF-19 Sky Grey, the second nearest is Humbrol 64. 
You may require a semi gloss varnish to get an closer match.  There were only two vosper crash tenders ever built were numbered 93 and 94, and these numbers  were painted white.  One final note which I have noticed with other RAF vessels in model form, the roundel on the bow of a crash tender should not have the yellow outer ring, the yellow ring signifies an air sea rescue boat in the RAF air sea recue service not a marine craft section boat to which the crash tenders belong to.
Hope this helps.

Nick B
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loinerlad

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Re: Vosper Crash Tender Colour???
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2012, 08:36:04 pm »

Thanks Nick  :-))

That is just the type of answer I was hoping for! I will see if I can source the Tamiya paint as that sounds a good bet.

Thank you very much for the info pal
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Vosper Crash Tender Colour???
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2012, 12:09:36 am »

Hear are three sites that may help I got mine mixed by  http://auto-paint.co.uk/carpaint/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=21  for my boat , so they match the original colours ,you can have a tinting agent to matt the paint slightly to take the shine off or use a can of clear coat with a matting agent in, they will mix BS colours in type of car paint, I got my paint colours of the vosper plans, picture of a small boat below that uses the colours, they where painted differently when they first left vosper but that was soon changed before the first of two re fits, there is a lot of info on http://modelfireboats.com/index.php

http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk/bs381c.html

http://www.e-paint.co.uk/BS381%20Colourchart.asp

Peter
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grasshopper

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Re: Vosper Crash Tender Colour???
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2012, 12:23:35 am »

Whilst I can understand your desire for reality with your Tender, don't assume the previous owner was incorrect by painting the boat white. If the original was based in the tropics or med area it could well have been the right colour.
I have a photo of an  RSL similar to the 1640 one that Deans produce, it ended up in the Maldives painted White as were all the other boats stationed there
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Norseman

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Re: Vosper Crash Tender Colour???
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2012, 01:43:09 am »



Hi Chris

Here's an example in white - looks good too.

Dave
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Vosper Crash Tender Colour???
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2012, 02:37:39 am »

The RAF Fire float MK2 the boat we are talking about was never painted white while in the service of the RAF , they never left the uk shores brief history

FF 93

After trials the craft was accepted at Calshot on the 07.01.53 and put in service with the MCTS for most of that year until placed in storage at 238MU on the 22.10.53. A couple of months later on the 21.12.53 the craft was transferred to Vospers for repair under contract 6MC/126 and was returned to 238MU at Calshot upon completion of repairs. The firefloat was returned to storage on the 06.07.55 and remained there until she was brought out to replace firefloat 909 to be operated by the Marine Craft Section at Calshot. FF909 was placed in storage at that time and was offered for disposal to DNC on the 30.08.57. At approximately that time, FF93 was permanently allocated to 238 MCS on the 24.07.57. However her career was short lived as AM letter C52109/53/MC2 dated 12.06.58 indicated the craft was to be transferred to DNC for disposal. The craft was advertised for sale as lying at Calshot in July 1958.

FF 94

After acceptance from the builder, the firefloat was taken on charge on the 10.11.52 and replaced the damaged firefloat 54 at Calshot. Like her sister, FF94 was placed in storage on the 22.10.53, but was brought back into service only a few weeks later on the 03.11.53 for service at 238 MU Calshot. FF909 was allocated to 238MU on temporary loan on the 14.06.55 whilst FF94 was under repair. Furthermore FF94 was again placed in storage from October 1955 when FF909 was intended to replace her, but this was changed on the 21.10.55 when ST 368 was allocated to replace FF94. The firefloat joined her sister FF93 for disposal through DNC on the 12.06.58 and was likewise advertised for sale in July the same year.
The two craft were operated most of the time they spent in RAF service as experimental craft

Dave sorry different boat

Peter
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Vosper Crash Tender Colour???
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2012, 02:40:16 am »

A bit more information

 16F / 154   46 FT  FIREFLOAT Mk2

PRINCIPAL PARTICULARS:

RAF BOAT NUMBERS:   93 & 94 

BUILDER:                  VOSPER LTD, Portsmouth
                     
DISPLACEMENT:               12.16 Tons  (Full Load)   10.33 Tons (Light)
HULL DIMENSIONS:      Length oa.      46’ 0”   
            Beam.           13’ 3Ό”   
            Draught.       1’  10Ό” (Fwd)   3’  05½”  (Aft)

HULL PLANKING:      Material.        Mahogany   
            Method.        Hard Chine double skin
            
MAIN MACHINERY:               TWIN ROVER METEORITE Mk203 petrol                         engines each 375 hp @ 2,400 rpm.
GEARBOX:                  MATHWAY  Type
REDUCTION:                  Direct.
AUXILIARY MACHINERY:            Single J.A.P. Type 2A
GENERATORS:               Two C.A.V. Type DO7X 24-volt, 33 amp.
                     One J.A.P. 28-volt, 288 watt.

PROPELLER:         Type:         Three-bladed
            Pitch.         17Ό”         
            Diameter.      19½“      
            Hand.         Anti-clockwise looking forward

MAXIMUM SPEED:               28.5 Knots               
MAX CRUISING SPEED:            25.5 Knots
TOTAL FUEL CARRIED:            270 Gallons
RANGE AT CRUISING SPEED:            155 Miles

PUMP MACHINERY:               Single FORD V-8 petrol engine
FIRE PUMP:                  Sun Engineering vane pump.
PUMP RATE:                  500/600 gallons water per minute.
FOAM TANKS CAPACITY:            Two each of 50 gallons.


RAF No.   YARD No.   ON CHARGE   DISPOSAL

BUILT BY  VOSPER LTD  (AT Portsmouth)      ORDERED 1952 Contract No. 6MC/711/CB21(a)

93      2450      07.01.53      SOC and  Transferred to DNC for Disposal 12.06.58 (Calshot)
94      2451      10.11.52      SOC and  Transferred to DNC for Disposal 12.06.58 (Calshot)
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Vosper Crash Tender Colour???
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2012, 02:41:28 am »

some more info


The two craft were operated most of the time they spent in RAF service as experimental craft. One source indicates the two craft were built to complement the SARO Princess flying boats which spent many years ashore unused at Calshot. The same source indicates that the fortunes of the Firefloat Mk2 faded with those of the flying boats.  Whilst in service the two craft were reported to have rocket like acceleration and could stop in their own length, once the automatic time delay of 7 seconds on the reverse gear cut in. This is borne out in that the craft had a turning circle of two boat lengths at 13 knots and three boat lengths at 28.5 knots.

The hull of the 46ft FireFloats, often referred to as Crash Boats, was of the hard chine type, built of double-skin mahogany on birch plywood framing. Bulkheads divided the craft into five compartments: fore peak, fore cabin and wheelhouse, sick bay, engine room, cockpit and after peak. The main engines were twin Rover Meteorite petrol units, developing 375 hp each at 2,400 rpm. The units were marinized versions of the Meteorite engines developed for military transport. Each engine had eight cylinders of 5.4ins bore and 6ins stroke, in two banks of four set at 60 degrees, the capacity being 1,099 cubic ins. The compression ratio was 6-1. Mathway hydraulically operated reverse gearboxes were employed, with direct drive, and the engines were controlled from the wheelhouse. Both engines rotated anti-clockwise. Three-bladed propellers of 19½” diameter and 17Ό” pitch were used, and with the engines running at 2,400 rpm a speed of 28 knots was attained.

Fire fighting was carried out by two 3½” hand-operated monitors which were suitable for foam or water, each being fitted with a hinged 1” nozzle for use with water. The pumping engine was a Ford V-8, which drove a rotary vane pump manufactured by Sun Engineering (Richmond), Ltd and designed to deliver 2,250-2,500 gpm of foam at 1,800 rpm (pump speed) or 500-600 gpm of water at 500 rpm. The same pump, connected to a suction hose, was employed for salvage pumping, the water being discharged through the monitors. A spring-loaded towing hook was fitted abaft the engine room casing and was designed for towing a flying boat and had an overload release of 10,000 lb. Rescue equipment carried included breaking in tools, line throwing rockets, a crash ladder, stretchers and a portable deck davit with winch.

The craft was built with the hull decked in, except for the after cockpit, and with raised casings provided over the engine room, sick bay and fore cabin. It was considered that the arrangement gave the maximum working space on deck, consistent with reasonable head room below. A watertight bulkhead separated the fore peak from the fore cabin and there were watertight bulkheads at each end of the engine room. The fore peak was arranged as an anchor cable locker and was accessed through a watertight panel. The wheelhouse, with raised floor, was arranged between the galley and the sick bay. The helmsman’s position was on the centreline; there were windows giving an all-round view and a Kent Clear View screen was provided for the window in front of the wheel. The control for an 11 inch searchlight was fitted in the roof above the helmsman's position. Radio equipment was mounted on a shelf on the port side opposite the galley and comprised one type 1143A transmitter/receiver for VHF.

The sick bay, aft of the wheelhouse, had a settee at each side. The roofs of both the wheelhouse and sick bay were heat insulated with Isoflex and the windows were of Perspex.

The cockpit was formed by a flat over the after peak and foam compound tanks were fitted along each side. Stowage was provided for deck equipment and boxes contained the crash equipment and flares. Stowage was also provided for batteries in the after peak.  Positive cam-type steering gear was employed. Twin rudders were fitted, the blades and stocks being of nickel aluminium bronze cast in one piece and housed in bearings and glands of similar metal. The main engines were carried by resilient mountings on sub-frames. The engines were of the dry sump type, with fresh water cooling, and the forward end of each sub-frame also carried the lubricating oil service tank, oil filters, oil thermostat and a combined oil and water cooler. The whole assembly could be lifted and transported as a single unit. A Silentbloc flexible coupling connected each engine to its propeller shaft. The shafts were carried in stern tubes equipped with Cutless rubber bearings, lubricated by circulating water bled from the engines sea water system. The stern tube glands were flexibly mounted an the stern tube by laminated rubber sleeves. The propeller shafts were of Monel metal and the brackets were of aluminium bronze, with Cutless bearings.

One main engine fuel tank of 270 gallons capacity was fitted in a gas tight compartment, between the engine room and sick bay. Water-jacketted copper exhaust pipes were employed in the engine room; near the after bulkhead the cooling water was injected into the exhaust pipes, the after lengths of which were of rubber and discharged through the transom. Flaps were provided for the outlets to prevent the ingress of water. Plessey cartridge starters were employed for the main engines. A 288 watt, 32 volt electric generating set, driven by a J.A.P. 2A petrol engine, was mounted on a shelf at the starboard end of the engine room and a fuel tank of 7 gallons capacity was fitted on the after bulkhead. This fuel tank also supplied the Ford V-8 pumping engine. A gear-type bilge pump was also driven by the auxiliary engine. There were two batteries, each of 12 volts and 100 amp hours, arranged in series. In addition to the auxiliary generating set a 24 volt C.A.V. Dynamo was driven by each main engine.

The craft was fitted with two oil service tanks each of 9 gallons capacity and two reserve oil tanks each of 7 gallons capacity. Fresh water was supplied from a tank of capacity 10 gallons. A separate distilled water tank of 9 gallons capacity was fitted for supplying water to the heat exchanger unit. Ventilation for the engine room and forward accommodation was by forced and natural draught, whereas that for the fore peak, sick bay, tank space and after peak was natural draught. The engine room and tank space were fitted with piping and sprays for methyl bromide fire extinguishing supplied from a 2 gallon fire extinguisher. Two methyl bromide Mk25 fire extinguishers were also fitted. Ground tackle consisted of a Danforth anchor with a Nylon cable. The listed duties of the 46ft Firefloat Mk2 were crash rescue, fire fighting, and salvage pumping. The craft was operated by a crew of 5 .

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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Vosper Crash Tender Colour???
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2012, 02:53:45 am »

this may help, remember the decks need to be non slip so do the cabin roof lids.
Peter
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Norseman

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Re: Vosper Crash Tender Colour???
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2012, 02:54:47 am »

Dave sorry different boat

No Problem Peter - Nice to be put on the right track. O0

Dave
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Vosper Crash Tender Colour???
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2012, 02:55:18 am »

this may be easyer to read Peter

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mudway

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Re: Vosper Crash Tender Colour???
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2013, 03:15:40 am »

It might be a coincidence but the deck painting instructions talk of BSS 631 Grey as the undercoat, could that be British Standard colour 631 Light Grey?
Also, the RN at that time used BS381C 632 Dark Admiralty Grey for carrier decks and it was an anti slip paint. Sort of seems logical that the RAF would use asn available anti slip paint.
What I can't make out in those instructions, is the colour for the cabin itself. Any idea who issued them as there might be a better copy or set of instructions out there. Possibly, Light Grey was both undercoat & topcoat for the cabin sides.
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VC

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Re: Vosper Crash Tender Colour???
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2013, 06:43:32 pm »

HS93, I really don't know how to thank you enough. I've just started building this boat today ( to take my mind off my complex Schnellboot build for a while) and I want to keep this relatively simple - I know that I will add detailing to it in the times to me - that is a different story. I was banging my head trying to figure out what scale this was in : http://eezebilt.hobby-site.com/RAF.html

You solved it all for me and now I know that I am working to a rough 1:21 scale ( I exploded the available plans to 130% to result in a model 26" long). Thanks for being there! :-))

Regards,

VC
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ardarossan

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Re: Vosper Crash Tender Colour???
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2013, 08:32:43 pm »

HS93, I really don't know how to thank you enough. I've just started building this boat today ( to take my mind off my complex Schnellboot build for a while) and I want to keep this relatively simple - I know that I will add detailing to it in the times to me - that is a different story. I was banging my head trying to figure out what scale this was in : http://eezebilt.hobby-site.com/RAF.html

You solved it all for me and now I know that I am working to a rough 1:21 scale ( I exploded the available plans to 130% to result in a model 26" long). Thanks for being there! :-))

Regards,

VC

VC, I am sorry to tell you, but HS93 (Peter Henshaw) is no longer with us. He passed away on January 19th 2013.

'Norseman' brought the sad news to Mayhem the following day. Here's the link to the thread (it's in Chit-Chat) http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=41406.0

It's also nice to see that HS93 is still able to influence and assist other modellers, even if he can't do it directly.

Andy 

 
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VC

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Re: Vosper Crash Tender Colour???
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2013, 04:38:54 am »

This is a shock. From what little I am getting to know about him, he has left behind a huge void and an even bigger legacy.  Just last evening, I was feeling a little confident knowing he would be there to guide me through this build. Perhaps, he will.

My condolences to his family.
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