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Author Topic: Propulsion costs - Steam Vs Sparks Vs Sail  (Read 3394 times)

tigertiger

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Propulsion costs - Steam Vs Sparks Vs Sail
« on: May 24, 2007, 03:56:46 AM »

I am curious as to the range of costs (ball park only) for the bits that make the boats go.

I would like to do a comparison.

between
Sail
Electric-
-fast electric
-tugs
-PT boat
-Warships
Steam
-screw
-paddle

For example,
Sail. The sails are dictated by the plan, so I will not count those.
But additional costs include

-Deck Fairleads - 2 at one pound approx
-sail winch servo - 1 at 30 pounds - 70 pounds
-two channel radio - only two channel needed- 25 pounds
-rudder arm and push rod - 5 pounds (rudder servo comes with Tx)


Electric would need to list BEC ESC if needed for that model
Also the prop and shaft should be included in the price. I know they are on the plan but they are an important additional cost for some models.

Steam
Anything else that is essential but maybe not a major component.
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tonyH

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Re: Propulsion costs - Steam Vs Sparks Vs Sail
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2007, 09:12:31 AM »

Some of the steam bits that come into the equation are:

Condenser
Refillable gas tank (if the disposable ones don't fit)
Changing pipework
Distilled water (either that or the cost of de-furring the kettle)
Spare sightglass!
Boiler test.
Steam oil
Gas

Of course, on the upside, you may get the situation where the plant appreciates in value so the costs can be offset.
Also, it's enjoyable making the condenser and the pipe runs oneself so do you count them as a cost?

Tony
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tigertiger

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Re: Propulsion costs - Steam Vs Sparks Vs Sail
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2007, 02:56:17 PM »

So how much for each of these bits (approx) and how much for the boiler and engine?
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boatmadman

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tobyker

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Re: Propulsion costs - Steam Vs Sparks Vs Sail
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2007, 04:51:04 PM »

Sail winch servos? Wait until rechargeable (or dry cell) screwdrivers are cheap, couple of microswitches from an old washing machine or whatever, 5 plus a servo to switch them, tops. Fairleads you can make.

But of course you don't have to - perhaps I'm a dinosaur GOG and should go and buy something RTR. Trouble is, I like making them more than playing with them - though sailing is fun. And no running costs at all apart from a bit of battery charging.

Steam is great, but too pricey, though can be OK if you stick to oscillators and meths.
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tonyH

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Re: Propulsion costs - Steam Vs Sparks Vs Sail
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2007, 04:53:10 PM »

As the Admiral noted, there are plenty of sites for the basic plant and most, certainly Polly, will give plenty of info.

Often, the gas tank, condenser etc. will be part of the plant and I wouldn't make the gas tank BUT you certainly could make the piping and condenser and learn soldering and silver soldering in the process. 50.00 would cover the materials, solders, fluxes and ****ups that you'll get. A lot of the latter tend to fall into the wrong thread/wrong pipe types - rather like the wrong cable on fast electrics but a tad less flammable.

Tony
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Propulsion costs - Steam Vs Sparks Vs Sail
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2007, 05:23:18 PM »

A lot of costs multiply if you add "fast" or "racing" due to bits n pieces being used nearer to, or beyond, their proper limits.
If you are a racing yotty, you might well have to replace your mylar sails rather often and this can build up he running costs.
Other bits will probably suffer equally.
A fast electric will use much more power size for size than a "normal" one, probably needing more, and better quality batteries, a more exotic, and therefore evpensive motor(s) which will need more frequent replacement etc etc....
If you pick an area where requirements are modest, costs go along, with the possible exceptin of steam where for safety and ease and reliability of operation you need quality, and that always costs.
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Propulsion costs - Steam Vs Sparks Vs Sail
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2007, 02:08:12 AM »

My steam plant goes as follows:

Engine 250.00
Boiler 200.00
Mounting plate 10.00
Coupling 10.00
Water Pump 25.00
Feed tank plus fittings 40.00
Gas tank 50.00
Seperator 50.00
Cheddar gas valve 90.00
Pipework and fittings 50.00
Gas pressure regulating valve 30.00
Spare engine 100.00
Brass off cuts for mounting 20.00

That's pretty typical stuff and I didn't go for the full Cheddar boiler control system.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Propulsion costs - Steam Vs Sparks Vs Sail
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2007, 10:48:00 AM »

On the same lines for my yacht,
Sail material, 1.5 yards of "industrial nylon"    5.00, does three suits.
12mm and 9mm dowel                                 5.00  masts and spars for three suits
Tube of UHU Clear                                       1.00     
Several yards of thin blind cord                     5.00 running and standing rigging
Shark trace (stainless) from sea fishing shop 1.00 hooks & linkages & misc rigging anchor points
Shirt buttons                                           Borrowed from SWMBO's work box - after much drilling and sanding while making rigging adusters decided that I had re-designed a shirt button!
Aluminium knitting needle                          Sourced while getting above item - spreaders, masthead crane
Servo                                                         5.00  modified for continuous rotation for use as a winch
15-12 reducer pack from plumbing store       2.00 makes a nice winch drum with a bit of work
Screw top picnic jar                                    1.00 housing for radio & batteries
12mm I/D Brass tube                                  1.00 mast joiner ferrules, mast step etc.

You will note that for steam you cannot really compromise on quality - my recipe for yacht bits and pieces will cause hoots of derision amongst the racing and scale fraternities, but works very well for my style of sailing.


                         
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Tom Eccles

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Re: Propulsion costs - Steam Vs Sparks Vs Sail
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2007, 09:11:52 AM »

This is a fascinating thread and a bit like asking "how long is a piece of string?"

Can I suggest that Tigertiger choose an example or two of each type shown on his original posting so that members can then show costs for basic and super duper models. e.g. one modeller may be quite happy to pay 40 for a motor and run a many multi r/c system where someone else may want the cheapest motor and 2 channels; One may be happy to buy all the ancillaries whereas another may wish to have total control of the build and make as many items as possible (although to be accurate I suppose an hourly rate should be set).

That way we may get a "budget" and "deluxe" costing for each type.

Interesting stuff

Cheers all

Tom

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boatmadman

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Re: Propulsion costs - Steam Vs Sparks Vs Sail
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2007, 10:36:31 AM »

If I costed out what these toys really cost, not including labour, I think I would scare the pants off myself!   :o :o
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catengineman

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Re: Propulsion costs - Steam Vs Sparks Vs Sail
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2007, 07:43:02 PM »

DONT GO THERE!

I KNOW WHAT MY TITO NERI HAS COST AND ...............................

You would think that a chap that's had ONE heart attack would find a less costly pastime

as my spanner would kill me if she knew how much this tug has cost so far I will only mention that it is A LOT!

                               ????.??  yes there is the correct amount of ? marks.

Richard,
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Capt Jack

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Re: Propulsion costs - Steam Vs Sparks Vs Sail
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2007, 08:21:58 PM »

Oh really ?, and how much would that be then may i ask?
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JayDee

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Re: Propulsion costs - Steam Vs Sparks Vs Sail
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2007, 08:36:45 PM »

Hello Tiger,
IF you are not going to Race your Yacht, only going to use it for relaxation and pottering around, a Winch is NOT needed !!.
I have sailed at National Events with yachts without a Winch, nobody noticed !.
Set the sails on the bank with Bowsies and away you go, OK, sailing into the teeth of the wind is not on, but this is Sport sailing, not the Americas Cup !!.
At Fleetwood Club, the Schooner Races do NOT allow any winches to be used, to keep the costs of the boats down to a minimum and you should see those guys sail !.

Cheers. John.
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catengineman

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Re: Propulsion costs - Steam Vs Sparks Vs Sail
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2007, 08:40:15 PM »

Oh really ?, and how much would that be then may i ask?

You may

You know

YOU wont tell!

Richard,
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