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Author Topic: Can't locate thread showing build of a large scale battleship  (Read 3377 times)

Archie2004

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Followed a detail thread showing step by step photographs of a battleship, can't find it, several photos had cats in them :-)
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Can't locate thread showing build of a large scale battleship
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2013, 05:46:22 PM »


Do you remember the name of the Battleship?
WW1, WW11, modern?
How long ago?

 Martin   :-)
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Archie2004

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Re: Can't locate thread showing build of a large scale battleship
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2013, 06:37:57 PM »

I think it was either the Dreadnought or the Hood which I know wasn't a battleship, he went from laying the keel to adding motorized gun turrets, in consecutive chapters of text and photographs. The ship was about 8 feet long.
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Archie2004

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Re: Can't locate thread showing build of a large scale battleship
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2013, 06:41:46 PM »

I saw the post last year but was from a link so it could have been on the forum earlier.
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dreadnought72

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Re: Can't locate thread showing build of a large scale battleship
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2013, 08:55:02 PM »

There's my build of HMS Dreadnought, with updates mentioned on a thread here.

(I really need to attempt to get some Spare Time. I did 220 hours' work last month, including one 60+ hour week. Regretably none of this was on model boats.)

Andy

(edited to add) Ah ... cats, you say? Maybe you DO mean my build. It's full of cats.
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Archie2004

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Re: Can't locate thread showing build of a large scale battleship
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2013, 09:05:51 PM »

Bingo! that's the one, anymore updates?
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dreadnought72

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Re: Can't locate thread showing build of a large scale battleship
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2013, 09:38:53 PM »

 :embarrassed:

^ And now, perfect use of the embarrassed smiley.

That is to say, there are no recent updates. The canoe hull is currently safely stored in the attic, awaiting time, money, space to work on her and - of course - the all-important urge to progress with the project.

On a positive note, I've been reading up on stepper motors for turret control (excellent thread, that one) and microprocessors. I believe the Dreadnought will be sailing with a Raspberry Pi (or two) when she's done. I've also been looking into home-brewed photoetch. It seems vaguely ridiculous to me to spend multiple hours (as I was) working with 70s-era materials and construction techniques (plus my fat fingers) on a 1/72nd scale project when I see some stunning work done in far smaller scales using photoetch and 3d-printing.

I suppose it's a bit like buying a new computer or other bit of high-tech. If you wait a few months/couple of years, you'll get all the bells and whistles, get it for less, and trail-blazers will have explained (somewhere on the Internet) how to iron out the problems and issues that arise.

So - or am I convincing merely myself? - the time spent not building has been (sort of) worth it.

Andy
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dreadnought72

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Re: Can't locate thread showing build of a large scale battleship
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2013, 09:43:23 PM »

Crikey.

I've just re-read the first page of the build log.

"2006"

 :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:

Andy
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Archie2004

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Re: Can't locate thread showing build of a large scale battleship
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2013, 09:58:21 PM »

I came across the log about a year ago as I was interested in the Royal Navy before WWI, my grandfather was a gunnery instructor in the RN before WWI and also served on a monitor that had the largest gun in the navy, battleships and cats whats not to like.
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Rob Wood

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Re: Can't locate thread showing build of a large scale battleship
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2013, 07:33:54 AM »

Andy,

I've just gone through your website, your build thread on Mayhem, and empathize with your sense of embarrassment and frustration with your project. The thing is, it's only been 7 years since you started. A project as complex as yours could easily take 20 years or more - especially with the over-the-top gunnery system you've spent so much time theorizing about.

I started my 1:144 Bismarck project in 2003, and I'm only around 80% finished. Like you, "real life" often gets in the way. The thing is, with inexpensive components and smart technology, it's just about possible to build or simulate in miniature just about any function of a battleship. Unfortunately, it is that very possibility that could lead to neither of our ships ever being completed. The question is: Would that be so bad? Is there any particular reason either model needs to be commissioned? In reading through your discussions in 2009, it seems to me that you and Cap and a couple of others were having more fun brainstorming and experimenting than I have ever seen anyone actually have in operating a model ship. Just sayin.

All of that said, I happen to have a command and control system in my Bismarck. It doesn't have all of the functions you have envisioned, because it doesn't need to. My Bismarck is a combat model. It has four twin turrets that fire .250" steel balls, using CO2 for propellent. The purpose of this command and control system is to train all four twins at a target when it's possible to do so. Otherwise, it will ignore commands to bear on targets until the director is rotated to a position that will give it a firing solution. Another thing it does is to calculate convergence, based on range input from the operator (me).

The purpose of this system is to aim all four twins at a particular spot on the target ship, in order to maximize the damage it can inflict in battle. It doesn't allow elevation, because our combat safety rules don't allow any elevation higher than horizontal. It does allow depression, though, because hits on or below the waterline will do the most damage to the opposing ship.

I don't mean to give you advice, since - after all - I've been saying my ship will be ready for combat every year for the past 8 years, but can I suggest that you go back to doing what you described as being one of the more enjoyable aspects of the hobby, and pick detail assembly to work on? Something like a crane or superstructure building? It will get you back into it, without the huge weight of designing and engineering the complex weapons system hanging over your head. Get back into the fun part of it. You can always work on the complex - but actually nonessential - parts after launch, just as was typical of 1:1 battleship construction.

One last thing: It's impossible to scale water, or to mathematically program a model ship to "look right" in the water. That is only possible with the Mark I computer in our heads. But you need to get past the theory, and sail the thing around, to truly know what works.

Best regards,


Rob





it's the possibility of simulating just about
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dreadnought72

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Re: Can't locate thread showing build of a large scale battleship
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2013, 12:50:06 PM »

Hi Rob,

I've just gone through your website, your build thread on Mayhem, and empathize with your sense of embarrassment and frustration with your project. The thing is, it's only been 7 years since you started.

Great use of the word "only" there. That said, the original was in the water in "a year and a day" after the steel started to be assembled. I'm possibly a year or two away from that point, if I had the time.  %)

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A project as complex as yours could easily take 20 years or more - especially with the over-the-top gunnery system you've spent so much time theorizing about.

 :o Twenty years?!? I hope not ... I've a Warspite, Invincible and Tiger to make, too.  :}

Quote
In reading through your discussions in 2009, it seems to me that you and Cap and a couple of others were having more fun brainstorming and experimenting than I have ever seen anyone actually have in operating a model ship. Just sayin.

And I think that's one of the benefits of Mayhem - the ability to get a group of like-minded lunatics individuals together to thrash ideas around. But it is interesting that new ideas brought to the table can change the eventual outcome; making a project considerably more than the sum thoughts of one person.

Quote
Another thing it does is to calculate convergence, based on range input from the operator (me).

Definitely a useful asset at the ranges you'll be wanting. For myself, "playing" with ranges of ~12000+ yards (170+ yards to scale) my gunnery may as well be parallel/convergenceless.

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I don't mean to give you advice...

It's always welcome!

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...but can I suggest that you go back to doing what you described as being one of the more enjoyable aspects of the hobby, and pick detail assembly to work on?

Agreed.

Andy
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Rob Wood

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Re: Can't locate thread showing build of a large scale battleship
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2013, 04:30:49 PM »


 :o Twenty years?!? I hope not ... I've a Warspite, Invincible and Tiger to make, too.  :}


It's not uncommon for an highly-detailed battleship model to take over 20 man-years to build. Are you familiar with Josef Kaiser's 1:100 Bismarck? He's documented it in a book, Schlachtschiff Bismarck - Das Modell

If you're in the mood for a little shock and awe, take a look at a few photos of his ship: http://www.ism-koeln.info/images/kaiser-josef/bericht-01.htm

The project evolved into one in which Josef attempted to craft every single detail that would have been visible when strolling the decks - even to water faucets behind bulkheads. Even though it started out as an RC model, the risk/benefit calculations around actually running it on a lake eventually pushed him into giving up on taking it out.

I have the same problem as you (USS North Carolina is waiting), and it's compounded by the need to repair my Lützow after every monthly battle. We both may have to compromise on all of the sub-assemblies, features and functions we've imagined. I often tell that to my clients (I'm a web developer by trade), but I should take my own words to heart and just get this ship pond-ready, then move on to the North Carolina.

There's a logarithmic increase in man-hour requirements for every mechanical sub-assembly in a model ship - not the least of which those required for engineering for a wet, UV-infused environment in which all of those fine details are subject to damage from handling, transport and collisions of various kinds. (Including being shot at, in my case.) There's also the issues of possible radio interference - however slight with 2.4GHz - or radio failure. And then the big one - recovering from a sink, in the worst-case scenario, compounded by the real possibility of having to first find it on the bottom. I realize my Bismarck's chances of this are greater than your Dreadnought's, but you still need to provide solutions for these eventualities.

On convergence:

Definitely a useful asset at the ranges you'll be wanting. For myself, "playing" with ranges of ~12000+ yards (170+ yards to scale) my gunnery may as well be parallel/convergenceless.

Not sure what your goal is. Are you thinking you're actually going to be shooting projectiles at a target 170 yards distant? Even if you could scale plunging fire in 1:72, you'd still need convergence to hit the target.

Fun stuff, though!

Rob
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Re: Can't locate thread showing build of a large scale battleship
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2013, 05:05:27 PM »

 :-)
 
hit a target at 170 yards?

First we must see if it is the right scale

secondly it would be very dangerous and certainly not
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Rob Wood

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Re: Can't locate thread showing build of a large scale battleship
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2013, 08:40:03 PM »

Certainly not...what?

Rob
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dreadnought72

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Re: Can't locate thread showing build of a large scale battleship
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2013, 11:00:38 PM »

Are you thinking you're actually going to be shooting projectiles at a target 170 yards distant?

No, Rob. But I do fancy a flash/bang/puff of "smoke".  O0

Andy
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Rob Wood

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Re: Can't locate thread showing build of a large scale battleship
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2013, 08:31:54 AM »

We sometimes take our combat ships to "fun runs" of scale military ships and submarines. We occasionally use talcum powder to simulate gun blasts. We fire the guns using CO2 as usual, but with unloaded magazines. We pour the talcum into the barrels, and you get a reasonably satisfactory effect.

The first shot is my French destroyer (Le Fantasque) on the left, vs my friend Ben's HMS Warspite on the right. Fantasque has just fired torpedoes at Warspite, and Warspite has returned a full broadside:



The second shot is of my friend George's USS Juneau, which is in the act of firing torpedo guns:



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