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[blowdown]

Anybody out there has any knowledge of iron  plating of a yacht hull around 1869. I am collecting data before starting the build of a 1:20 scale model of a Lake Windermere twin screw steam yacht. The only information shown on plans in my possesion is "built by T.B. Seath and Co. of Rutherglen with iron hull and countersunk rivets". I have a good first hand knowledge of modern steel plating but this is something way beyond me.The sort of data I am looking for is would the plating have been joggled at the seams or would vertical seams have landed on the frames and horizontal seams used butt straps. Also would the rivets be entered from behind and hammered flat into countersinks in the plating. This type of detail will show on a three foot model.
                                   Cheers, Blowdown.

[BarryM]

Given that it was a yacht, one would expect that it would have either fully flush plating with backing doublers (very expensive and heavy) or the (somewhat less-expensive and lighter) butt-jointed strakes with overlapping horizontal joints.  There is also the possibility that it used butt-jointed strakes aligned as would be the strakes in a wooden clinker hull.  Do you have a name for her which would help to pin it down?
If you need help on the arrangement of plating, frames and packers, I will get out my old naval architecture books and post the diagrams that I have. Let me know.
Research into Windermere steamers of a similar era should also give some useful info. There must be a fair bit of that about.
As regards to countersunk rivets, the rivets did indeed have a countersunk head. The plating was drilled and the holes countersunk on the outer surface. Obviously the rivets were then entered from the outside and hammered over on the inside with a rivet set to form a round head.
I hope this helps.
Barry M

[blowdown]

Thanks Barry for your very helpful response. The boat is the T.S.S.Y. ESPERANCE. I would like to take you up on your offer to supply further information from your reference books but will be away on holiday for the next two weeks. I will get in touch on return. If you could let me know the titles etc of the books you have on the topic I can try to obtain copies to fill a gap in my own technical library. I have tried the Windermere Steam Boat Museum, from whom I obtained my plans but they  are currently undergoing major refurbishment after being closed for a considerable time and they do not really want to know. I sail with the Windermere Model Boat Club from the museum slipway. Thanks again Blowdown.

[vnkiwi]

Hi,
Don't know if this is any help.
The attached photos are of an iron paddle boat built in 1864. Hull length 60 feet
From outside the rivets are very hard to see, but they are countersunk, with a slight raise head, and have the raised cylindrical head on the inside. horizontal joints have the top plate overlapping the bottom, and riveted.
The plates are butt joined with a plate on the inside and riveted together.
This was built for the NZ Govt, in Sydney Australia, but sure that it would be fairly typical of the times.
Good luck with your search, not alot around from that era.
cheers
vnkiwi

[derekwarner]

That's very interesting plating information thanks vnkiwi............ ...but I hope you are not suggesting that the rust after 149 years was caused by the OZ builder?........
Was it a small shipyard in Balmain?  .......... Derek

[vnkiwi]

Certainly not Derek. 

Built by
P. N. Russell & Co.,
Darling Harbour,
Sydney

She spent all her life on The Waikato River, and abandoned 1889 on the river bank in the middle of Hamilton. Pulled from the river 1982, but still within the flood zone.
Finally raised and placed on her own stand, under her own roof in 2010.
A very well built example of Australian craftsmanship, unfortunately mostly undone on her final refit in the 1870's by local boatbuilders.
cheers
vnkiwi   

[BarryM]

Blowdown,
 You are probably aware of these links which provide photographs but just in case.....
http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=10075
http://www.visitcumbria.com/amb/windermere-steamboat-museum/
http://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/register/446/esperance
From the evidence of the above, she appears to have butt-joints on the verticals and lap on the horizontal. I am no great expert on 19th C. ironwork but assume the plating would be pretty thin at around a 1/4" (???)
Are you also aware of 'Frivolity' based on Esperance which may still be moored on Windermere? http://www.slholidays.co.uk/Swallows_and_amazons
A look at the Frivolity - if she is still there - may give you some answers.
Regards,
Barry M

[gondolier88]

Frivolity is as based on Esperance as a Boeing 747 is based on a Tiger Moth! I wouldn't go that route in research.


It's a few months since I was on Esperance, but as I work on an 1859 steam yacht rebuilt in the same manner as she was originally built I can offer this;


The traditional way of plating lake boats is joggled frames and plate seams overlapping on the horizontal. Verticals meet on frames, or have butt blocks if not possible to meet in a frame.


A solid plate keel, stem and deadwood of around 3/4" was laid first. Plates of around 1/8"-3/16" were most common, Esperance being plated in Wrought Iron on Iron angle frames, with iron 'T' floors, with plate joining the vertical faces of the floors to the frames with limber hole straddling the keel. The plates were drawn onto the stem post forward to create a 1" thick structural member, riveted through plate-stem-plate.


All rivets would be flush on the outside, drawn into countersinks.


I might be able to help with any photos or extra details you may require, and I recommend you purchase G. Pattinson's 'The Great Age of Steam on Windermere' which has lots of details of Windermere steamboats.


You can pick a harder model at your scale, but not many- the platework around the sterntubes is simply a work of art- T.B Seath's was one of the best Iron/Steel boatbuilding yards in the world, and many of their boats are still giving sterling service, many in largely original condition.


Greg

[blowdown]

Thanks everyone for your extremely useful comments. I am back from my holidays now and starting to get my mind in gear again. Its amazing how much information you have all provided, in fact the only small amount of information outstanding is diameter and pitching of rivets, but with all the references you have provided no more problems are foreseen.  In deference to our Aussie. collegues I shall now imbibe a few "tinnies" to provide hull plating ? Good news today I have located the refurbished Esperance in the wet dock at Windermere Steamboat Museum, just down the road from me. The bad news is access not allowed to the boathouse for "Health and safety reasons". I shall persevere.
                                  Thanks again to everyone.  Blowdown

[Liverbudgie2]

The museum is due to open again in two years time - if they get the lottery grant; they should know in the next couple of weeks.
LB

[gondolier88]

Esperance is not 'refurbished', or anything like- and certainly won't be accessible to public for many years to come. As I say, if you need specific details, just ask and I'll do my best to get you what you need. It would be great to see a platework model of her, especially if riveted!


Greg