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Author Topic: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought  (Read 107385 times)

raflaunches

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HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« on: July 13, 2013, 08:39:45 PM »

Hi everyone


Last Friday (5th July) I visited Ron Dean at Deans Marine, when just before I had to rush away to look after the house whilst my sister had her baby, I ordered the HMS Hannibal. Despite me disappearing soon after ordering the kit a week later I went back to see Ron catching him loading his van for the Kirklees show. As promised a complete kit of the Hannibal was there waiting for me. With my Dad I watched Ron open up the big box for me to inspect my latest buy. With all the fittings to fight through, two giant sheets of brass, three fittings trays full of white metal and resin, a beautiful sycamore planked deck and two plans we eventually came to the hull and superstructure pieces. A fabulous GRP hull and battery deck were certainly the pride of the kit! :-))
I've now got to finish my MV Imperial Transport so I can start this beauty, I've got to make up my mind which version I want to build?! The 1898 version or the post 1905 (1917) version in WW1. Decisions decisions! Really looking forward to starting her so the Victorian fleet that many of Mayhemers so dearly want to see... :-)) ;)
Many thanks to Ron and his team at Deans Marine for preparing the kit in such a short amount of time and the brilliant quality of the hull and fittings.


P.S I got to see Rons latest product... His steam plants and engines... Truly magnificent and very affordable I think, I'm even tempted!
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2013, 03:19:49 PM »

Hi everyone


I thought I would show some of the kit's contents, the GRP hull, GRP superstructure/battery deck, the two etched brass sheets and the sycamore planked decks.


The hull and superstructure sitting on the kitchen table, note that I'm not allowed to build it there under pain of death from Mum!!!  <*<























A bit of information about the HMS Hannibal:
She was one of nine Majestic class battleships built for the Royal Navy between 1894 and 1898. They were the biggest and most powerful warships the Admiralty had ordered up to that time. Armed with four 12inch guns, two in two covered barbettes (note that they were not turrets as we know them to be), a secondary battery of 6inch QF guns in casemates along the hull sides, another secondary battery deck of 4inch QF guns on the main deck and eventually on the masts in the fighting tops six 6pdr guns! Truly armed to the teeth!
They were just as revolutionary as the Dreadnought which made all the previous battleships obsolete over night, they were the first to incorporate the 12inch gun, telescopic range finding sights, Harvey 9inch armour, and 6 & 4inch QF guns into one ship. Hull wise they were essentially improved Royal Sovereign class battleships which made them classed as First class Battleships whilst the Royal Sovereigns and others were relegated to Second class Battleships.
Another advantage they had over previous classes of British battleships were their excellent sea keeping abilities due to their high freeboard. Unfortunately war taught British designers the value of compartmentalisation, the Majestics did not have proper compartmentalisation in the engine rooms, the result that when majestic was torpedoed in the Dardanelles she could not counter flood and she capsized.
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2013, 04:41:59 PM »

Wow Nick, that kit is truly awesome.  I was very very tempted a year and a half ago, but after seeing the vast array of etching sheets plus trays and trays of fittings descretion overided and I came home from Ron's with HMS Amazon instead. 
If you've only been playing the pipe organ for a couple of years then perhaps Tocata and Fugue in D Minor is a 'wish' that has to wait for more experience and a huge amount of free time. 
One day I aim to build that though !
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2013, 06:16:24 PM »

Why what have heard Bob? Is my little secret out about my added feature for the Hannibal! I'm going to have a recording of Holst's The Planets: Mars- The Bringer of War playing loudly from inside her! :}
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2013, 07:08:59 AM »

Why what have heard Bob? Is my little secret out about my added feature for the Hannibal! I'm going to have a recording of Holst's The Planets: Mars- The Bringer of War playing loudly from inside her! :}

Only one tune for British Victorian Warships - Crown Imperial by William Walton.

Looks ike you are going to have a lot of fun over the next few years.
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2013, 09:15:22 AM »

Why what have heard Bob? Is my little secret out about my added feature for the Hannibal! I'm going to have a recording of Holst's The Planets: Mars- The Bringer of War playing loudly from inside her! :}

Are you going to name her "Thunderchild"?
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2013, 09:34:54 PM »


Are you going to name her "Thunderchild"?


You're not the first the mention the Thunderchild, my mum rang me up and said the very name too, perhaps we are all mad! :}  I can just see her sailing on  Wickies lake starting with Mars- Bringer of War, followed by Crown Imperial, then Jeff Waynes War of the Worlds! That would be truly epic! :-))
I will truly enjoy building this model, I'm currently reading Brian King's Building Late Victorian Battleships to assist with the build. Hopefully I will due the model justice.
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2013, 10:46:21 PM »

Looking forward to seeing this one Nick! I'm not sure if this has been posted elsewhere but RA Burt's third volume on British Battleships 1889-1904 is due to be released soon if it's any help...
James
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2013, 10:58:20 PM »

Looking forward to seeing this one Nick! I'm not sure if this has been posted elsewhere but RA Burt's third volume on British Battleships 1889-1904 is due to be released soon if it's any help...
James


Hi James


Good to hear from you, I've got this particular book on my pre-order list on amazon for the last six months waiting for it to arrive, should be brilliant to read and see some excellent plans and photos. I'm currently reading through the extensive instruction book, certainly a little book in its own right!
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2013, 08:53:57 AM »

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2013, 12:51:40 PM »


You're not the first the mention the Thunderchild, my mum rang me up and said the very name too, perhaps we are all mad! :}  I can just see her sailing on  Wickies lake starting with Mars- Bringer of War, followed by Crown Imperial, then Jeff Waynes War of the Worlds! That would be truly epic! :-))
I will truly enjoy building this model, I'm currently reading Brian King's Building Late Victorian Battleships to assist with the build. Hopefully I will due the model justice.


We have been tempted to build a martian war machine to match our manned battleships in scale, its probably one of them 'great idea, dont do it!' thinks though!!
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2013, 07:30:50 PM »


We have been tempted to build a martian war machine to match our manned battleships in scale, its probably one of them 'great idea, dont do it!' thinks though!!


Wouldn't want to try to get the rc to work in a Martian tripod, its bad enough in a model boat!  {-)


Check this out it's quite cool!
 
http://www.victorianshipmodels.com/colossus/index.html


Absolutely fantastic, well worth the read and the playing with animations, many thanks TailUK. :-))
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2013, 08:25:32 PM »

The Colossus animations and descriptions are brilliant. Thanks, TailUK
Toby

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2013, 01:47:36 PM »

Very glad to read that you've taken the plunge with this model. You won't regret it, believe me, and on the water it is the most wonderful thing afloat.
 
I suggest right at the start you make a decision about which ship it is going to be, because all 9 of them (the largest class of battleships ever built) had subtle and not so subtle differences. I have seen models of Caesar, Hannibal and Majestic (and my own Mars) based on the kit, so there's plenty of others to choose from if you fancy something different.
 
I've not been able to find a builder's model of any of these ships (If anyone knows of one, please advise!) but the model of Russel in the imperial war museum has much detail in common. Surprisingly there are two surviving ships: Mikasa in Japan is virtually a Manificent and Texas, in Houston, the last surviving Dreadnought, answers many detail questions as well as being equipped with triple expansion engines.
 
The Burt book referred to would be a good idea and was not available when I built my model so I used instead a pair of articles by the same author that appeared in 'Warship' Vol VII (1983). This is possibly the same material that appears in 'British Battleships'. One of the illustrations shows the individual configurations of the ships, the main points being:
 
Main deck torpedo net shelf vs. upper deck
Striking (stepped) topmasts vs. concentric
Foremast through the bridge vs. behind it as in the kit
Turret shape different in the last ships
 
I decided to scratch build the bridge structure because I wanted the 'mast through bridge' configuration and also suspect that the deckhouses printed in the kit are a little overscale. Compare with Burt's elevation drawing. I also built the masts from K&S tube rather than the wood supplied and have not regretted the decision. I made the torpedo net booms from tube as well as I thought the supplied white metal castings would be vulnerable. (You will need to make these anyway if you are going to have an upper deck net shelf as in most of the ships.) I made the davits from brazing wire endlessly filed and emery'd to a taper section for the same reason.
 
One thing I would do differently is to add very substantial bilge keels because she is a snappy roller in a short sea of the kind you can get at Wicksteed. By substantial I mean strong, keyed right through the fibreglass hull and secured with P40 on the inside so that no leaks are possible. The same goes for the net shelves because this is where one's grip goes when handling what is quite a heavy model.
 
Apart from those details, I followed the kit and used virtually all of the supplied fittings. I used car heater motors because with 12 poles you can have to the props turning about 1 rev per second and gave her differential power, which I would say is essential.
 
This is a truly wonderful kit of a wonderful ship and a tribute to Ron and his team. In my case it spawned a fleet of Victorian warships, none of which would have happened if I had not walked into his showroom that day and out again with that gigantic cardboard box. Ron should be justly proud when he sees these models at the shows. Thanks, Ron.
 
Here's Mars
 

 
 
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2013, 02:38:53 PM »

The Majestic is most incredible "kit" I have ever seen.  Wonderful job Ron.  One day I want to build one.  I nearly did a couple of years ago.  I need more practice first though  :-))
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2013, 07:33:14 PM »

the majestic class was not the thunderchild ship in war of the worlds. The description more resembles HMS Polythemus, as the thunderchild was described as a torpedo ram. The misconception came from the artwork on the album cover which depicted a majestic class battleship.
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2013, 08:34:42 PM »

Hi Victorian


Many thanks for the advice and information, I'll try to find a copy of Warship Vol VII, I have Volumes 1-4 so hopefully I can get one off eBay. It was your model that I first saw at Warwick a few years back, Tony Newstead has lent me a picture of Mars, Kent and Pelorus on the inside pool. I was that impressed by your models that I have always promised myself that I would build a Majestic class battleship (once I had saved up!). In fact Tony Newstead has asked me to 'get a move on'! so we can have a fleet regatta of Victorian warships, probably two Majestics, a Kent, his Russia cruiser, SMS Emden and who knows others might turn up! Might be a couple of years away though! I'm looking forward to building the kit, looking through the list of Majestics left which leaves:


Victorious
Illustrious
Prince George
Jupiter


I'll wait to find a copy of Warship Vol VII to find which ship to build before I start like you recommended at least then I can start gathering information on that particular ship. At the moment HMS Prince George or HMS Victorious looks interesting with their service histories but who knows I might change my mind!  {-)


Any way many thanks to Ron and his team once again for producing and updating the kit, I'll definitely be keeping a build log of her once I start.


the majestic class was not the thunderchild ship in war of the worlds. The description more resembles HMS Polythemus, as the thunderchild was described as a torpedo ram. The misconception came from the artwork on the album cover which depicted a majestic class battleship.


I thought it strange that the book described a different ship when I read it a few years back but never thought much of it but you are right it definitely describes Polythemus to a T!  :-))


The Majestic is most incredible "kit" I have ever seen.  Wonderful job Ron.  One day I want to build one.  I nearly did a couple of years ago.  I need more practice first though  :-))


Hopefully between us we can complete the nine ships of the class! :-))
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2013, 08:41:30 PM »

Now that would definetly be worth a day out to see!
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2013, 09:28:03 PM »

In fact Tony Newstead has asked me to 'get a move on'! so we can have a fleet regatta of Victorian warships, probably two Majestics, a Kent, his Russia cruiser, SMS Emden and who knows others might turn up! Might be a couple of years away though! I'm looking forward to building the kit, looking through the list of Majestics left which leaves . . . . .
Victorious, Illustrious, Prince George, Jupiter



I thought it strange that the book described a different ship when I read it a few years back but never thought much of it but you are right it definitely describes Polythemus to a T!  :-))


I really look forward to following this build Nick, it might give me the confidence to take on one of the three remaining ships.
 
As to your excellent fleet meet suggestion, my HMS Polyphemus is currently in for a major refit due to "exceeding its design depth" but will be back on the water in a couple of months.
 
Bob K
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2013, 04:24:31 PM »

Hello all you Majestic class pre dreadnaught fans. Here is a shot of my Caesar on her maiden voyage at Eastnor castle in 2010. She is one of the two in the class to have circular barbettes which I vacuum formed myself. The second shot is her with Victorian's Mars at the International model boat show. So far only a fleet of two so let me know where and when we can gather for the full review. Cheers Graham.
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2013, 08:27:42 PM »

Hi Graham


Many thanks for the pictures of Caesar and Mars, we will keep you informed of the potential fleet review, fingers crossed that I'll be able to start her soon.  :-))
Best regards


Nick B
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2013, 08:39:35 PM »

I forgot to mention, I've found a copy of Warship Vol VII and with any luck it should be on its way to my address for me to read and digest- one step closer to choosing one of the nine Majestics! :-))
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2013, 10:45:57 AM »

Excellent news that you found that so quickly. It took months when I tracked my copy down.
 
The PRO (National Archives, Kew) have photographs of virtually every ship from this period, normally shown as new and maybe other times. Their 'search engine' is almost impossibly befuddling, but the staff personally or on the phone are amazingly helpful. They also have many of the ship's logs which you are allowed to read and even photograph.
 
The Imperial War Museum have a library in a building around the corner in S London with much fascinating material including many photos of ships. An appointment may be required. An excellent card index (like a computer, but works!) will lead you quickly to any relevant material and you can copy at modest prices.
 
No-one's responded to my question about a builder's model: as the most powerful battleships ever built at that time, and many from private builders, the Majestics must have had builders models. Where are they? Surely someone here (Colin?) knows of one?
 
I've discovered many other previously unkown models in my travels, but never these ships. In this period, the builder's models were astonishingly accurate and reveal intricate details that you can never deduce from official plans or endless photographs. (OK it's often said that the models represent the ship 'as planned', not 'as built', and careful checking against the usually pitiful collection of surviving photographs is a must).
 
This is a dangerous question for me because if I ever do find a builders model of a 'Majestic', all I'm going to learn is about the innumerable mistakes that I've made in the model! But my still unfinished 'Niobe' simply would not have been possible without the discovery of the fabulous 'Amphitrite' in the store room at Barrow and the more workmanlike, but very accurate 'Diadem' in the now closed Science Museum gallery.
 
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2013, 08:48:00 PM »

Excellent news that you found that so quickly. It took months when I tracked my copy down.
 


Yes, I spent most of yesterday evening hunting the Internet and eBay for a copy and when I found a copy for a relatively low price, I bought it without hesitation. RA Burts book isn't due out to buy until September so at least I can do some early reading.


Hopefully one day a builders model does appear even if does mean that our models could be inaccurate compared to it. But as I found out with my Insect class gunboat when I had almost finished the model I discovered a photo of the ship in the era I was building it to but my model was wrong, so I was left with the difficult decision whether to rebuild or leave it alone. I decided on a 50/50 solution and rebuild the obvious differences and leave the rest.


I've found some pictures in an old book called 'old photographs of the Royal Navy' by Wilfred Pymn Trotter of the Majestics, I'll try to upload some of the pictures for comparison  but it does have some very interesting pictures of Victorian era warships.
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2013, 02:00:50 PM »

Further to this discussion of elusive Majestic builders models (where's Colin when you need him?), here's a snap of Vengeance in the Vickers Museum at Barrow in Furness. Vengeance is very similar to the Majestics in detail and I've tried to capture some of this in the Mars model.
 
Incidentally, Vengeance might be the very finest of all builder' models, finer even than the glorious Minas Gerais, last seen tucked away in a dusty NMM store.
 
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