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Author Topic: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought  (Read 107226 times)

tghsmith

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #100 on: September 12, 2013, 01:03:30 PM »

http://www.cityofart.net/bship/site_nav.html     here's a good time waster, put lots of era photos in one place...(ps I really wish the Brooklyn had a sternwalk, most of the ships she ran with did,)
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #101 on: September 14, 2013, 08:33:05 PM »

I have a theory on how the Majestic Class stern walks were protected.  Whilst up at Ron Deanís Open Day today I learned that one of the submerged torpedo tubes was mounted in the stern. 

My rationale on the reason for this was if a nearby ship appears to lose steering control, in a manner likely to cause damage to the stern and vulnerable stern walk, a torpedo could be launched to eliminate the threat, in the much same way that modern Phalanx CIWS close protection guns are used today.

Maybe early torpedoes were not that effective, which is probably why both rear tubes and stern walks were later eliminated.
 
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #102 on: September 14, 2013, 08:46:50 PM »

Brilliant concept Bob! Love the idea of someone shouting out the orders for that on the bridge!  %% %% :-))
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Nick B

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Bob K

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #103 on: September 14, 2013, 09:10:36 PM »

Brilliant concept Bob! Love the idea of someone shouting out the orders for that on the bridge!  %% %% :-))

Or from the Stern Walk ?
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #104 on: September 14, 2013, 09:19:01 PM »


Or from the Stern Walk ?


Thinking about it, it would be the best place to control it from! Up close and personal with situation!  {-)
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Nick B

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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #105 on: October 07, 2013, 07:53:47 PM »

Well it's been a few weeks since I touched the hull but now the tiring 12hour shifts are over and last weeks barrack block 'bull night' and station commanders inspection is behind me I can make a mess in my room again! :D
After speaking to Colin-d at Ron's open day I have decided to contact the NMM plans section for some original ships plans. After a friendly chat via email with the curator he has suggested buying the 1896 plans as they show more information than the original 1893 versions, so I will be buying a copy of the upper deck, side profile and bridge plans to complement the kits plans. Like Colin's friend in Germany I have now decided to sand off the majority of the raised details like the portholes and the ladder strips and using photos and the plans that I will be getting soon to mark out the new positions, remember that this hull is of Hannibal, one of the last Majestic's to be built whilst Prince George was the third to be built, so the hull fittings would be different- all part of the modelling process, some would call it fun! :-))
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Nick B

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timg

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #106 on: October 08, 2013, 10:50:10 PM »

Hi raflaunches and everyone else
 
I'm enjoying reading this thread and all the extra input is very interesting, great subject
please keep the pic's coming ,
good luck with the rest of the build
spud
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colin-d

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #107 on: October 09, 2013, 05:36:31 AM »

Hi nick, don't point the finger at me.... its not my fault.. lol
but if you would like any of the photo`s you have already seen, drop us a line and i will get them to you..
the ladder strips can also be seen in my Inflexible Build..  :-))
 
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victorian

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #108 on: October 09, 2013, 10:52:13 AM »

It's a great plan to get the Admiralty drawings. I hope your'e not opening too big a can of worms!
 
Not trying to teach egg sucking here but when you transfer the portholes from the Admiralty drawing remember that the are shown in perspective. If you make a printout directly from the plan and drill through it they will be in the wrong place because of the curve of bow and stern. Don't ask how I know that!
 
I strongly reccomend you get whatever photos the PRO (National Archives) have of Prince George. They usually have pictures dating from the comissioning. The staff there are extremely helpful and will take you on the phone to the correct record which is just as well since their online system is virtually impenetrable. The record will be in a section called ADM / Photographs of Ships and the pictures are usually of very high quality.
 
 
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tghsmith

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #109 on: October 09, 2013, 11:23:26 AM »

have just fought the predred porthole battle with my brooklyn(photos were a great help in getting correct placement).. painted glass hull(no gellcoat) tom's modelworks photo-etch 16" and my resin cast flap type were glued to the hull (well over 150 combined) the hull was painted with final topcoat colors, sharp scribes and small scrapers were used to define the internal edge and remove paint from what would be the porthole "glass". clear gloss coat with a little dark tint added was then painted to smooth even finish to the "glass" ..
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #110 on: October 09, 2013, 08:33:21 PM »

Hi everyone


I'm glad, that like me, you are enjoying the build so far, and once again thanks for all your support and advice. I dread to think what I have let myself in for {-) , I almost completed my build of the HMS Gnat gunboat then was sent a photo that I would have liked to have seen at the beginning of the 2 year build!
As Victorian points out that pictures show what the ship really looks like there are some hidden detail that are 'blurry' on the usual pictures available (well on the ones I have anyway!) and it's nice to see what some of this is. When I saw the build by Colin-d's friend, I was initially overwhelmed by not only the quality but by the amount of extra detail that you can't normally see with out the original plans.  I learnt this from the Gnat build when comparing the modelling plans with the admiralty versions and WOW what a difference! I'm not going to do every nut and bolt or rivet but enough to busy the hull up a bit.
The only problem I envisage is that the build of Prince George will take a little longer than originally thought ;)  but that will much more fun for all of us- I'm sure?!! {-)

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Nick B

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victorian

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #111 on: October 10, 2013, 10:32:57 AM »

I think we've discussed this already but I finally got my back ordered copy of Burt's British Battleships 1889 - 1904 from Amazon yesterday. Bizzarrely this was at a new reduced price of £27.90! A true bargain for anyone interested in the Pre-Dreanought era. My eyes go out of focus when I get to the part on Mars so I can't see the discrepancies too clearly. I hope he's not doing a book on Protected Cruisers.
 
Incidentally Niobe will be on the Northampton SME stand at the Midlands Model Engineering show next week if I can get the rigging done by then!
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Geoff

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #112 on: October 14, 2013, 06:04:47 PM »

One thing to remember about the Victorian/Edwardian pre-dreadnoughts was that many ships fittings were designed to be moveable, steam winches, booms and the like which complicates the issue somewhat!
 
Remember cowling vents were rotatable in many cases and removeable in others when the ship went into action.
 
There is a book available on Edwardian crusiers by Friedman I think, which is quite interestinf and worth purchasing. Have you seen a copy of The Royal Navy at Malta 1865 to 1906? This is a large format book full of pictures of Victorian pre-dreanoughts taken by a local photographer/family on glass negatives. It's a very nice reference book, more of a general nature but still very interesting.
 
Enjoy
 
Cheers
 
Geoff
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victorian

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #113 on: October 16, 2013, 11:11:06 AM »

Quote
There is a book available on Edwardian crusiers by Friedman

Doh! Exactly what I was afraid of. Well it's too late. Niobe is as complete as she's going to be and going to the MMEE show today. Any revisions due to what looks like an excellent book (On order, £25) will have to wait.
 
Thanks for that reference, all the same.
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tghsmith

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #114 on: October 16, 2013, 12:50:44 PM »

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2016130    a few photos and links on predred  activities over here.. white and buff brightens the day!!!!
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #115 on: October 19, 2013, 04:57:44 PM »

Hi everyone


Don't worry I haven't fallen off the edge of the world- though it felt like it!!! :D
I have just spent the last week holidaying in South Devon/Dorset near Lyme Regis, the only downside being the absolutely terrible phone and internet signal. It took me several hours to read some of the posts on this thread due to poor download speed in the area! However, I have taken notes and have ordered the book suggested by Geoff so I am looking forward to it arriving sometime next week. Whilst twiddling my thumbs waiting for the signal to return I have read cover to cover R.A Burt's British Battleships 1889 to 1904, and as Victorian has pointed out it's a fantastic read especially the chapter referring to the Majestic class but the others are just as good.
With regards to the build to far I have ordered the plans last Saturday so I am just waiting for them to arrive in the next couple of weeks- fingers crossed for this week! :-))
Thanks for the pictures and suggestions- Victorian hope you enjoyed yourself at the Engineer's Show at Warwick, the Friedmann book is also excellent covering the Pelorus class and the 'Niobe' but your models are brilliant and the pictures are good in the book but you can't see as much detail as you would lie to see- the problem of too many men wanting to have their picture taken getting in the way of all that important stuff that us modellers like to see!
I'll be looking through the Majestic section again tonight... can't keep away! :}
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Nick B

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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #116 on: October 21, 2013, 09:25:31 AM »

Well guess who was a very happy chap this morning?  ok2
My plans arrived this morning and I was eager to see what I had spent my money on and needless to say I'm not disappointed. For anyone considering buying this particular set of Majestic drawings they are from 1895/6 and were modified in 1904 denoted in brown ink it helpfully states on the corner- unfortunately I have black and white copies so can't see what the actual modifications were but in conjunction with pictures I have bought and been sent by Victorian I can start the build again. In addition the drawings do show the torpedo net shelves in the original position on the upper deck, and it's not what I expected, I'll try to get a decent picture of them to show what I mean but at least some of the items in the old photos are a lot clearer now once you can see what they are meant to be! Another piece of info I was made aware of by Colin-d were the positions of the five torpedo tubes, the drawing clearly shows the stern tube directly beneath the stern walk, his friend in Germany has already made his torpedo tube so I was treated at Deans Marine open days to his fantastic build pictures- can't thank you enough Colin for sharing those pictures.
Plans for this week- go to print shop and have drawings reduced from 1/48 scale to 1/96!
                           - mark out the portholes and other details on the GRP hull
                           - remove some of my previous detail (stern walk support brackets) and replace.
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Nick B

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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #117 on: October 21, 2013, 11:54:48 AM »

Hi everyone


I managed to get some shots of the plans- not easy due to their physical size! Two of them are almost 9ft long!
Any way, I have concentrated on the stern walk and stern section to show the admiral's walkway and the stern torpedo tube, the final picture is of the torpedo net shelves, I thought that they would be one continuous length but as you will see they are split up in to many shorter lengths.








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Nick B

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victorian

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #118 on: October 21, 2013, 03:44:57 PM »

If I'd had those drawings when I built Mars it still wouldn't be finished.
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #119 on: October 21, 2013, 10:41:22 PM »

If I am interpreting the drawings correctly, in the plan view we have two elliptical deck plates equally off axis with the centreline of the hull, then in the stdb aft elevation view we see one pipe angled down at about 40 degrees
Are these the hawse pipes for stern anchor chains?........
It would be fascinating spend a few hours viewing old engineering drawing detail.......Derek
 
 
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #120 on: October 22, 2013, 09:15:09 AM »

Corrtect!
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #121 on: October 22, 2013, 10:31:26 AM »

the final picture is of the torpedo net shelves, I thought that they would be one continuous length but as you will see they are split up in to many shorter lengths.




So if I understand the lowest drawing correctly, the net shelves are only sited where gun positions are sited right up  to the deck edge?

So ordinarily, the net shelf is inboard of the deck edge and because the gun positions now occupy some of that deck edge area, the have had to fashion net shelving that protrudes from the side o the ship.

Why was the net shelf hatched out? Was it removed during her life span and had her plans altered to this affect?
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #122 on: October 22, 2013, 05:17:56 PM »

Hi Pondweed

You've pointed out another unusual feature of the net shelves which I was going to ask about, why were they not continuous?
The cross hatched areas are, I think, the alterations made in brown ink mentioned on the top corner of the drawings. After reading RA Burt's book British Battleships 1889 to 1904 and talking to other mayhemers the net shelves were relocated to the main deck level below the 6inch case mates in 1904 as part of a class modification, probably easier to deploy them or easier to use the 6inch guns.
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Nick B

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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #123 on: October 22, 2013, 09:30:49 PM »

Nick B.... engineering Drawing convention over the past say 100 years is that if a section or component is made redundant or eliminated, the exact areas are outlined & cross hatched as shown below with those three rectangles along the deck edge ....and a reference text describing what, when, why & how etc they were removed should appear somewhere on the Drawing...... so depending on the time line you are modelling would determine if you were to include or leave the elements out.....Derek
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Pondweed

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #124 on: October 22, 2013, 11:34:03 PM »

Yes the diagonal 'lines' through the plan lines is how drawings were modified in early 20th C as I've seen this before a few times. Derek, does the colour of the hatching have any special meaning?

RAFL, of course, the original plan is in colour... the NMM only prints the plans in b&w.

I've only ever met continuous net shelving... some of it is pierced with holes/slots and some is a plain, flat sheet... but reading up on it, if you go to page one of this thread and look at the image of Vengeance, the heads of the net booms poke through between the shelving. This is the correct way to house the booms on these ships and explains the spaces in the shelf.



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