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Author Topic: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology  (Read 2406 times)

Neil

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SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« on: July 25, 2013, 01:48:01 pm »

Should this really happen in todays modern age of technology, and with such training ships having modern power as well as sail...
 
WHAT WAS THE WATCH OFFICER DOING???
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23437143
 
And hats off to the Irish Coasties and the RNLI.....a magnificent job done in the face of adversity.
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Footski

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Re: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2013, 01:57:32 pm »

Unbelievable with today's technology. Very scary! <:(
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eddiesolo

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Re: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2013, 01:57:58 pm »

It lost power to its engine and was then at the mercy of the weather and sea...such a shame to see a beautiful ship like that battered and sinking  <:(  At least all the crew got off 18 taken off by the Spirit of Oysterhaven with the rest being rescued by the RNLI.
 
Si.
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Netleyned

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Re: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2013, 04:16:19 pm »

Loss of the only engine when that close to
probably a Lee shore only leaves the anchor
as a possible saviour. No amount of hi tech
equipment is of any use in that situation.
Hats off to the rescue services and the other
Sail Training vessel who averted a human
tragedy.

 Ned
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Colin Bishop

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Re: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2013, 04:19:42 pm »

Quote
Unbelievable with today's technology. Very scary!
All too believable I'm afraid. Hazardous situations at sea can develop at frightening speed and frequently there can be only seconds in which to act. In this case the engine failed and they were unable to get the sails up in time. Could happen to anyone - and frequently does as the RNLI will attest.
Colin
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Neil

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Re: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2013, 07:03:26 pm »

I think you are all missing my original question.....it was SHOULD, not could!!!!
 
with a vessel of that importance, should it have been that close to a lee shore without sails set for added safety, and just on motor to have such a short time before disaster........or was the skipper just blasť about his situation.
 
I know that there are far more knowledgeable sea farers on here on here and that my "accusations" are just knee jerk speculation.......but it seams incredible to me that this happened with such ease and rapidity, from what is being discussed on another forum.
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Shipmate60

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Re: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2013, 07:32:26 pm »

The vessel was getting ready to enter harbour.
It would be usual to furl the sails and rely on the engine for manouvering through the harbor entrance.
Without a "Spare" engine or twin screw an engine failure at that time will always result in problems and as in this case severe problems.
The only way round this would be multiple thrusters allowing for 1 failure.


Bob
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Colin Bishop

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Re: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2013, 07:51:43 pm »

Yes Neil, just 'knee jerk speculation'. None of us were there, none of us can second guess the skipper but I imagine, as the Americans have it, s**t happens.
Maybe the wind was in the wrong direction to claw off a lee shore anyway. Let's just await the results of the official enquiry into the loss before jumping to conclusions.
Colin
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raflaunches

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Re: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2013, 08:18:27 pm »

I think the saying ' if it can go wrong- it will go wrong!' sums up incidents likes this.


I work on multi million pound jet aircraft with so many built in fail safes that it should be practically impossible for the aircraft to crash, but they still do!!!
Engines will fail at the most unopportunate moments and cause the most unfortunate losses but at least no one died in this sinking- just a shame that the Astrid was destroyed. <:(
On my human factors course they say 'to err is human'.

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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2013, 09:28:36 pm »

The obvious answer is no "It should not happen" but think about this, there is now in place a practice called risk management.
 
With risk management all the adverse options,  the possibility of things going wrong are weighed against the costs to rectify/prevent.
 
Mostly bean counters have the final say and that is why these things that shouldn't happen do so.
 
In other words it is cheaper to let it happen, occasionally, than prevent it.
 
The same logic is applied to maintenance,  don't pull it apart and rebuild it wait until it fails.
 
If you read the reports into accidents/disasters they invariably shouldn't have happened, but it was too costly, meaning it effect profits, to prevent it happening.
 
But hey what do I know????????????
 
A stitch in time saves nine, not no more cheaper to new one.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2013, 09:40:32 pm »

Quote
The obvious answer is no "It should not happen"
To which the obvious answer is - have you ever been afloat on a sailing ship/boat? I had a 25ft Yacht for many years.
It happens all the time. Most times you get away with it, sometimes you draw the short straw. You can take all the precautions you like but still be caught out. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but the open sea is a dangerous place and even the most careful crew can come unstuck. Most mariners understand and respect that and don't apportion blame.
Colin
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eddiesolo

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Re: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2013, 09:52:46 pm »

It applies to all aspects of life. Your car, walking down the steps, there are variable degrees of risk some slight some more, and no matter what you have in place things will and do happen beyond a humans control...C'est la vie.
 
Si:)
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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2013, 10:01:47 pm »

So simply put we are saying that
 
Sh** Happens  O0 O0 O0
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Shipmate60

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Re: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2013, 10:06:12 pm »

If it happened in UK waters the Marine Accident Investigation Bureau (MAIB) would investigate what caused the accident.
I don't know if Ireland has anything similar.
It is amazing looking through their investigations to find how many fishing boats founder after a jubilee clip fails on a salt water cooling pipe and the engine room fills up with sea water.


Bob
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Neil

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Re: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2013, 10:27:32 pm »

The vessel was getting ready to enter harbour.
It would be usual to furl the sails and rely on the engine for manouvering through the harbor entrance.
Without a "Spare" engine or twin screw an engine failure at that time will always result in problems and as in this case severe problems.
The only way round this would be multiple thrusters allowing for 1 failure.


Bob

cheers Bob...............I now understand the situation, and all I can say is that it was very bad luck on behalf of all those on board.
 
cheers, neil.
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dpbarry

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Re: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2013, 11:25:16 pm »

If it happened in UK waters the Marine Accident Investigation Bureau (MAIB) would investigate what caused the accident.
I don't know if Ireland has anything similar.
It is amazing looking through their investigations to find how many fishing boats founder after a jubilee clip fails on a salt water cooling pipe and the engine room fills up with sea water.


Bob


Yip.. They do @ http://www.mcib.ie/
Declan
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B.B

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Re: SHOULD THIS HAPPEN, in todays age of technology
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2013, 11:38:53 pm »

It's a shame to see any vessel being slowly destroyed as she is, any one that has held the responsibility of controlling  a vessel only knows to well how quickly and easy  that things can and will stuff up. (there for the grace of God go I) :(( .......
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