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Author Topic: Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A  (Read 7985 times)

Martin [Admin]

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Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« on: May 03, 2009, 06:09:08 AM »


Thanks guys, very informative.

4.  (7:40) A command is called to raise the White Enson, it sounds like, "Pipe the Silk." ~ does that sound right?

5.   (7:50) A seaman yells " Hands to station for leaving harbour. Special sea duty men close up."
       ~ Who are the Special sea duty men and what does it mean to "close up?"

6.   (9:25) As the ship starts to leave harbour, a command is called "Key 49 hoist", which I take to be the ships ident No.
       ~ Is that the norm that navel vessels only fly identity flags when under way?

7.    The officer that calls out the above, is on the compass platform, who is he and what's his duty?

8.     Does anyone have they layout diagram of a Flower class Covettet?
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tweety777

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Re: Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2009, 08:42:14 AM »


6.   (9:25) As the ship starts to leave harbour, a command is called "Key 49 hoist", which I take to be the ships ident No.
       ~ Is that the norm that navel vessels only fly identity flags when under way?

7.    The officer that calls out the above, is on the compass platform, who is he and what's his duty?

Hello Martin,

The answer on question 6: In the Dutch navy that indeed is the case, don't know it for sure for other navy's, but that could be.

Answer on question 7: That sounds to me like it is the captain, who should be somewhere near there anyway when leaving the port.

Greetings Josse
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Re: Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2009, 09:05:16 AM »

The view from the other side...tonight (sat 2nd May`09)  "Das Boot",  BBC 2 11.40pm.  German with sub titles if you see what they mean.

Just finished watching Das Boot... again!
Anybody else watch it?
I seemed to me the subtitles were quite a  bit different to the DVD.

  On a bit late for me but it was described as "the director`s cut" maybe that explains differences in sub-titles?
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Re: Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2009, 03:43:35 PM »

Martin
If you Google 'Flower Class Corvette' you can spend days researching the vessel.
My own 'Bluebell' was from a Matchbox kit of some 25 years ago and is undergoing refit at present.
I got interested because an uncle was in atlantic escorts during the war and it is interesting to hear tell of the different mods
made to individual ships. So if you want an accurate model you have to pick a name and a specific date
because, as I understand it, bits were being modified and changed throughout the life of a particular vessel.
Cheers
Mark
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allnightin

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Re: Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2009, 08:25:55 PM »


Thanks guys, very informative.

4.  (7:40) A command is called to raise the White Enson, it sounds like, "Pipe the Silk." ~ does that sound right?

5.   (7:50) A seaman yells " Hands to station for leaving harbour. Special sea duty men close up."
       ~ Who are the Special sea duty men and what does it mean to "close up?"

6.   (9:25) As the ship starts to leave harbour, a command is called "Key 49 hoist", which I take to be the ships ident No.
       ~ Is that the norm that navel vessels only fly identity flags when under way?

7.    The officer that calls out the above, is on the compass platform, who is he and what's his duty?

8.     Does anyone have they layout diagram of a Flower class Covettet?


Re Original question 4 - In the RN you cannot salute or return a salute from a junior properly unless wearing the prescribed headgear.  Caps are worn inside the ship for formal occasions such as Captain's requestmen or defaulters (when plenty of salutes take place) but not otherwise.  I presume that scene was in just to show how inexperienced the junior officer was.

Re latest q4 - I suspect it was "Pipe the Still" (i haven't got the film to hand to check) which is to indicate that everyone on the upper decks should stand to attention on the upper deck while Colours is taking place.

Q5 - Special Sea Duty Men are those members of the ship's company pre allocated specific tasks which require extra skill or training because the ship is in a situation requiring extra care and/or additional people closed up  beyond that in normal cruising watches - for example sounding the depth, someone to manage the engine orders seperately from steering the ship etc.

Q6 - Perhaps "Kay 49 hoist" ?  Warships hoist their pennant numbers in confined waters to make it easier for other ships and the port control authorities to see who you are.

Q7 - Again without seeing the film again not sure who exactly but this order would normally come from the Yeoman (a Petty officer) or Leading Signalman depending on whether Compass Rose was big enough to have a Yeoman or not.  He is responsible for overseeing all the visual signalling that needs to take place.

If you want more of this sort of thing watch "In which we Serve" next!

Francis Macnaughton
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2012, 06:38:42 PM »


This was on BBC Radio 4 today -  The Cruel Sea, dramatised by John Fletcher.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b01cj83p

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01cj83p

The Cruel Sea is the story of the crew of a newly commissioned corvette, Compass Rose, a ship that forms part of the escort to merchant convoys during World War II. The crew are mostly inexperienced men from non-naval backgrounds and the story focuses on their differing reactions to the horrifying experiences they have as German U-boats attack their convoys with increasing success. Some will survive the war, and some won't - but all of them will be changed by their experiences.
But this isn't just a war story. In a surprisingly subtle way, The Cruel Sea also chronicles the often abrasive process by which classes, previously unknown to each other, were thrown together onboard ship and had to learn to rub along - and how the earned respect, in the long term, led to the future Welfare State and the social equity and cooperation of the 50's and 60's.
The novel, published in 1951, was an immediate success and it has never been out of print since. It brings home the realities of the longest battle in the second world war, the Battle for the Atlantic, but it does so not through harrowing depiction of the horrors involved, but through its detailed depiction the people involved, people we come to care about, to admire, and to mourn.

... I'll try and record it for our foreign sailors!
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mikearace

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Re: Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2012, 07:11:37 PM »

I didn't put it on the Who have you met, but seeing this thread thought I would mention that I met the author Nicholas Monserrat in May 1975.  He was a guest of my skipper Sir Nicholas Hunt and came on-board for lunch the first day we arrived in Malta.  I knew he was coming on board as I typed the invite without any clue as to who he was - he was just one of a few invites made by the skipper and I later sent him the skippers thank you letter.  The skipper called into the ships office where I worked which was opposite his day cabin and introduced him to me and I politely shook his hand and he asked me how I liked the mob and chatted for a couple of minutes about where was I from etc.  When he was gone and my chief came back I asked him in nautical language just who on earth Nicholas Monserrat was.  I wish I had been a little older and wiser then and not an 18yo unappreciative sprog.  I realised later actually how privileged I was rather than my thoughts then of  'yeah whatever'.    
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regiment

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cruel sea film
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2013, 03:52:09 PM »

  watched the cruel sea last  night about the forth time,, question why did the ships   not have covered bridges
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Re: cruel sea film
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2013, 04:54:38 PM »

Having served on  two ships with open bridges, I
often asked myself the same question.
The last one was my Avatar HMS Echo in the mid
70,'s.
It was a nightmare maintaining all the geophysics
equipment needed for Hydro graphic Surveys when
it was open to the elements.
How many times have heard the helmsman shout
Coffee as we hit a milestone and the wave broke over
the bridge.
Mind she was only a 100ft long wooden ship so quite
lively.

Ned
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: cruel sea film
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2013, 05:05:05 PM »


 i was told ' so that crew could spot for enemy air activity'.

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Neil

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Re: cruel sea film
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2013, 05:09:06 PM »

  watched the cruel sea last  night about the forth time,, question why did the ships   not have covered bridges

Only the fourth time Regiment???....yer slackin me lad.
 
Did anyone see the programme on Beeb 2............. 20.00 - 21.00 hours last night about Malta GC.
brought tears to my eyes when they showed the footage of the SS Ohio limping in to port at Grand Harbour, Valetta....they were so so brave as a nation.
 
neil.
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Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2013, 05:14:46 PM »

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Netleyned

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Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2013, 05:16:59 PM »

Saw it Neil.
Lump in throat while explaining it to SWIMBO.
Her best friend is Maltese and her Mother who
lived through it as a young girl has never spoken about it.

Ned
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Re: cruel sea film
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2013, 05:23:36 PM »


 i was told ' so that crew could spot for enemy air activity'.


HMS Warrior had an open bridge.
Not many aircraft to spot in the 1860's  %%
Someone told you a porky Martin.

Ned
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malcolmfrary

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Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2013, 06:09:59 PM »

Open bridge on the smaller ships -
1. visibility both of what was going on in the outside world and on board
2. local communication (the ability to see and shout at the crew)
2a. so that the captain could see and be seen
3. possibly the compass was more reliable outside a steel box with the technology of the day
4. and, above all, it was probably considered more manly and character building.  All that fast moving fresh air, ideal for keeping a clear head.
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Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2013, 06:59:36 PM »

Not being in the navy, (though my eldest sprog was trying - has to wait three years now), i assume closing up is shutting any hatches / doors etc to the elements to prevent ingress of water  :} , the anotomy series book will give you a layout, though from memory, the rear section was taken up mostly by the engine.
 
As for mods - more like ommissions, in the book it mentions that some arnament was dummy as they had nothing available, and in some cases was anything they could get their hands on, mine has an airfix single bofors in the rear bandstand and a German 88 - yes an 88 on the forward bandstand - looks better than the kit version.  :D
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Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2013, 07:24:16 PM »

Open bridge on the smaller ships -
1. visibility both of what was going on in the outside world and on board
2. local communication (the ability to see and shout at the crew)
2a. so that the captain could see and be seen
3. possibly the compass was more reliable outside a steel box with the technology of the day
4. and, above all, it was probably considered more manly and character building.  All that fast moving fresh air, ideal for keeping a clear head.
I used to work with a guy whose dad was a 'vette skipper on western approach duty , might have seemed 'manly'. . . did NOTHING for the complexion  {:-{  he was known as 'old LEATHER FACE'
Bill
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Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2013, 07:41:58 PM »

Regarding Das Boot.


The English Audio and English Subtitles for the directors cut are different. The Subtitles were transcribed from the German language script, which is closer to the original book. The English Audio was made slightly different as it was done in so many different versions and some of the countries which received the English version were deemed to be a little more open to being offended.


If you watch something like the scene with the crewmen in their bunks describing their intimate conquests, you'll see that the subtitles offer a much more.....in depth.....commentary!
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Re: cruel sea film
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2013, 08:51:29 PM »


The last one was my Avatar HMS Echo in the mid
70,'s.

Ned

Hi Ned,
  Was this the ship that became the Marine Society's "Earl of Romney? If so I remember a trip we made with a party of Sea Scouts to Alderney in gale force winds - very lively - many seasick Scouts - but great fun!
Dave.
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Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2013, 08:58:11 PM »

She was that ship .
Rather bouncy in a blow.

Ned
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Jerry C

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Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2013, 08:59:56 PM »

"Close up", means to go to your station. When each station has its complement it reports "closed up". eg. Order,"40/60 gun crew close up and clear away". When gun manned and ready to load report, "40/60 gun crew closed up, gun ready".
Jerry.
 

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Re: cruel sea film
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2013, 09:03:32 PM »

HMS Warrior had an open bridge.
Not many aircraft to spot in the 1860's  %%
Someone told you a porky Martin.

Ned

I was only thinking of WWII era ships....  :-)
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Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2013, 09:19:45 PM »


This one?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pvbl8

yes Martin....that's the one............worth watching if you missed it.
neil.
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Re: The Cruel Sea - Q & A
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2013, 10:44:40 PM »


Yes, watched it this evening, very good, although the BBC (?) made a much better one a few years ago based around the navy and the blockage runners.

Very intersting about the first ships not being unloaded and sunk at their mornings!!!  :o
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