Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic -BBC  (Read 2671 times)

Martin [Admin]

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19,691
  • Location: Peterborough, UK
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic -BBC
« on: May 28, 2007, 11:13:29 PM »

Anyone see the BBC 1 program about the sinking of the Lusitania yesterday?

I thought it was excellent, well thought out script, emotional and excellent acting!
BBC still know how to make or commition great documentaries.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/listings/programme.shtml?day=yesterday&service_id=4223&filename=20070527/20070527_2000_4223_2328_90
Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"    -   Mayhem FaceBook Group!

Martin [Admin]

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19,691
  • Location: Peterborough, UK
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"    -   Mayhem FaceBook Group!

Pointy

  • Guest
Re: Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic -BBC
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2007, 11:21:22 PM »

I thought it was good as well, they took a risk in portraying the popular Churchill as so cold blooded and pulled no punches about the admiralty and the ships' cargo but I guess thats what war does to you. The only thing that niggled me was the fact that they seemed to use footage from "U571" U20 on the surface looked like the converted S- Boat from the film while for sub underwater shots they used the VIIC model footage from the same film.
Logged

Martin [Admin]

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19,691
  • Location: Peterborough, UK
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Re: Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic -BBC
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2007, 11:26:09 PM »

Was the Lusitania really carring armaments?
Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"    -   Mayhem FaceBook Group!

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,589
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic -BBC
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2007, 11:26:32 PM »

I missed it! Will it be repeated?
Logged

Pointy

  • Guest
Re: Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic -BBC
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2007, 11:34:08 PM »

Dr Robert Ballard dived the wreck in the 90's, he could find no large holes in the hull that could confirm a cargo explosion, he puts forward the hypotheisis that the secondary explosion was caused by coal dust. He did however find records in archives recording small arms loaded onto the ship, rifle bullets and explosives to make arms with and the like. If there's more its still not public yet.
Logged

RickF

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 918
  • Black, white and buff - not grey!
  • Location: Norfolk UK
Re: Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic -BBC
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2007, 11:41:24 PM »

I doubt if the truth about the Lusitania's sinking will ever be known. In the words of the old cliche, "history is written by the victors". In this case it was us. I think it is generally accepted that, just as in the Second World War, the British were anxious to get the US in on our side. How true-to-life the portrayal of Churchill was is open to conjecture, but he did have a heartless streak.

As entertainment, I thought the program was excellent, well acted and well filmed. The actual sinking was particularly well done. I videoed it and the DSM and I watched it this evening. Even she was impressed, and suggested we keep it for future viewing, so it must have been good!

Rick
Logged

Roger in France

  • Guest
Re: Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic -BBC
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2007, 06:33:03 AM »

I watched some of it and thought it well done. However, my wife has "a thing" about sinking ships (she once survived one) and so I had to turn over to another programme, for the actual sinking!

Roger in France.
Logged

Martin [Admin]

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19,691
  • Location: Peterborough, UK
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Re: Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic -BBC
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2007, 01:37:30 PM »



..... is your good lady wife a relative of Molly Brown?!?!  ::)

Not sure if it correct etiquette to ask but what ship was it?

Martin
Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"    -   Mayhem FaceBook Group!

DickyD

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,497
  • www.srcmbc.org.uk
  • Location: Southampton UK
    • SRCMBC
Re: Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic -BBC
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2007, 01:48:15 PM »

I dont think Rogers that old-----------------is he ?? ???

He did say his wife, not a relative. ::)
Logged
Richard Solent Radio Controlled Model Boat Club http://www.srcmbc.org.uk

Willit

  • Guest
Re: Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic -BBC
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2007, 06:32:14 PM »

I thought it was very good but two things niggled me, and one made me jump up and down with fury!

1.  When the U-20 is about to dive, the captain kept ordering to "BLOW MAIN BALLAST!!!"  WHAT?????? that doesn't make it submerge, it makes it surface!!! thats the one I got annoyed by as its such a simple detail.

2.  When the ship sinks, the stern does a Titanic and goes straight down, in Ballards book, it clearly shows that the bow ploughed into the bottom while the stern was out of the water, so the ship couldn't have gone into a complete vertical dive.

Other than that, a good portrayal.  I was absolutely furious though by the end, I just can't accept that that bloke from the admiralty was that complacent not to divert Lusitania, and then try and frame the captain when they were at risk of being exposed.  I know it was wartime and it would be bad for morale for the admiralty to cock up etc but whatever happened to decency?  At least the judge at the enquiry saved everyones face.
Logged

Roger in France

  • Guest
Re: Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic -BBC
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2007, 05:48:29 AM »

RE. my wife and sinking ships.

Sorry, I do not follow the reference to "Molly Brown", please explain.

My wife does not remember the name of the ship that caught fire in Malta. She was very young at the time and was with her mother visiting father who was flying from Malta with the Fleet Air Arm.

Roger in France.
Logged

leaky

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 153
Re: Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic -BBC
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2007, 06:14:46 AM »

Molly Brown was a first class passenger on the titanic she survived and was nicknamed the unsinkable Molly Brown.kathy Bates played her in the James Cameron Film (the one that helps Jack Dawson with the suit ) Hope this helps :)
Logged
badly raised and ill mannered.

White Ensign

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 779
  • Limits must be limited!
  • Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Re: Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic -BBC
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2007, 11:18:58 AM »

Like all "Sinkings" that will go through the publicities, after a view years there will come up a myth about it. And much more of it in wartimes.
The Lusitania case was the official reason for the US to enter the war. I remember that there was a report a couple of years ago on German TV about it and they have shown photographs of the origin, where there had been American soldiers aboard and therefor it can be assumed arms as well (no matter if it just had been rifles or whatever).

The Naval history is full of that examples. Another was in the turn of 1944/45, where a passenger ship, running under the red cross and fully illuminated had been sunk by Russian submarines.
This ship was full with about 4500 refugees, mostly women and children. The name of the ship was Wilhelm Gustloff and not many survived in the icy Baltic.

Leading a "clean war" is an oxymoron- it hasn`t changed in the last 60 years. Still wonder when mankind will learn from it.

Jörg
Logged
When God created planet earth, he made it with 75% of water. Bet he had the modelboaters on his mind!

funtimefrankie

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,260
  • Location: Birkdale, Lancashire. twixt the Mersey & the Ribble
Re: Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic -BBC
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2007, 08:23:14 AM »

It's a pit that the SS Manxman wasn't up to staring in the show.
One day maybe..............

http://www.ssmanxman.orangehome.co.uk/News.htm
Logged

polaris

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic -BBC
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2007, 07:18:42 PM »


Dear Martin,

In answer to your question, the answer is unfortunately yes. Nothing 'mega', but shell fuse heads all the same... maybe a ton or two (enough to attract 'unwanted' attention). Quite a few years ago was shown and held one of them.

It is an interesting subject one way and another, because it will never be known exactly who did what and why. It could be said that the US Govt., persuaded and ready, needed a reason to sway the US public, so, whichever way both the US and GB Govts. could have had an interest. After all, for fuse heads to be purchased by 'someone', or given by 'another', and then loaded (or any other arms & munitions), 'someone' knew something somewhere. It wasn't quantity that necessarily counted either (boxes can be made heavy after all), and can be made 'suspicious' when marked 'Machine Tools' or 'Machine Parts'. When there are 'prying eyes' about they can see what they are led see and hear what they want to hear.

The Captain of the Lusitania was an innocent participant, but I sometimes wonder if there was 'someone' else onboard - TX sets could be quite small even in those days. Had the ship followed her 'normal' course, I wonder if a U Boat would still have been waiting. Germany didn't really want the US directly involved, so it does beg the question of whether the U Boat Commander made the wrong judgment by firing on her - taking the sailing orders of the time too rigidly. Much depends on what other orders he might have received... but this we will never know. One thing is certain, there was plenty of time for both sides to think about things as Lusitania crossed the Atlantic.

Regards, Bernard2
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up