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Author Topic: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)  (Read 13738 times)

Pondweed

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2013, 04:13:45 pm »


More (small) progress. The plan had been badly "accordioned" in shipment and would not lie flat at all so I bought a foam board and stuck the plan to it using a repositionable adhesive.

That's a good idea as the more you work with it, the mor it gets tattered, creased, worn and attracts rings from the bottom of coffee cups.

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kamus

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2013, 04:47:07 pm »

Modellers can always buy my hull from Fleetscale. I always have a deck edge return which eliminates trying to pick up the sheerline . Just a thought


Thanks John- after noticing some more egregious inaccuracies with Dean's hull I've given up and ordered your hull which I know will be a big improvement. I tried to mention some of these flaws on Dean's forum but apparently they are not too keen on hearing criticism of their product. I was threatened with being banned and I removed some of my negative comments as a result. The moderator there also tried to suggest that the problem was more with my inexperience as a modeler. Well that may be true but attacking my skills after I criticized their hull's demonstrable flaws is awfully convenient. Aside from the photos I already provided here, I found that the upsweep of the hull at the iron deck was at different points on each side of the hull- not symmetrical. Also, I found that the hull towards the bow end would have to be pulled in 5mm on each side to match the width indicated on the plan. Maybe experienced modelers laugh this off but I thought that was a pretty serious error in scale at 1/96.


I don't understand why I can't say something is wrong there without repercussions. Amazon allows anyone to leave any kind of review and I think that's a healthy practice. It's unlikely I will ever deal with Dean's in the future, much as I admire their model collection.
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Liverbudgie

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2013, 05:51:17 pm »

This has been a right of passage for many marine modellers over the years, most of us learn from their experience and move on to better things, vowing never to return.

LB
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Hmshood

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2013, 06:37:12 pm »

Hi Dave welcome to the forum,

I am a recent member and believe me there is a wealth of help and advice available. I have found that whenever I have a need for some help on a specific problem like making simulation rivets or electric motor configurations for example I have received a significant number of very useful approaches and technical information references.

You can even get help by sending pictures of your problem so that fellow Mayhem members can see if they have a potential solution/approach.

Look forward to any pics showing progress

Regards

Vic   

 
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carlmt

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2013, 08:56:21 pm »

Hi Kamus - Best of luck with the build  :-))
 
Just one small point about the hull - you mention that the sides were 'out' by about 5mm each side?  With a fibreglass hull this can happen as the hull is removed from the mould slightly 'green' (so I understand).  However, it is easily overcome-able as usually the hull sides are flexible enough to be 'squeezed' back to shape to fit the deck.  I doubt you will find a 'mass produced' fibreglass hull that is perfect in every sense - as in effect, each one is hand-made.
Keep us all posted with progress...
Carl

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2013, 10:49:35 pm »

Hi Kamus - Best of luck with the build  :-))
 
Just one small point about the hull - you mention that the sides were 'out' by about 5mm each side?  With a fibreglass hull this can happen as the hull is removed from the mould slightly 'green' (so I understand).  However, it is easily overcome-able as usually the hull sides are flexible enough to be 'squeezed' back to shape to fit the deck.  I doubt you will find a 'mass produced' fibreglass hull that is perfect in every sense - as in effect, each one is hand-made.
Keep us all posted with progress...
Carl

I might be reading it wrong but he did not say that,  >>:-( >>:-( however, he did say, that Deans did not accept criticism, even though it was constructive. :-)) :-))
This is not a bag Deans etc etc nor is this the first instance of such a comment/reaction ......................not a good look.
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kamus

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2013, 03:24:25 am »

Thanks all for your advice and comments. I do want to be clear about one thing- I'm not here to bash Deans- I'm just trying to build a boat for my Dad. Yes, in someways I'm disappointed in some of the quality and accuracy but other aspects of the kit I do like. They have a few talented and experienced modelers ton the forum who give good advice but some of them apparently did not care for some of my more critical comments.


As far as the 5mm error- I did pull the sides in manually to see what that would look like and seemed to me to be stressing the hull to a worrisome degree but then again I don't know how much stress it can comfortably take.


I'll post some pics soon- thanks again!


Dave




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kamus

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2013, 12:24:10 pm »

UPDATE:


Amazing! Colin (the forum admin for Deans)  has just banned me on the basis of the comments I've made here!! What the heck is wrong with those guys!?
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Hmshood

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2013, 12:51:22 pm »

Dave,

That's typical of suppliers these days they solicit feedback and then complain when someone with a genuine beef actually says, I would suggest that the fact that a number of others have had similar comments would illustrate this. I will note this and probably now use other suppliers

Vic

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chipchase

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2013, 02:40:39 pm »

UPDATE:


Amazing! Colin (the forum admin for Deans)  has just banned me on the basis of the comments I've made here!! What the heck is wrong with those guys!?

 Obviously does not like negative comments about their products, never mind you won’t get banned from this forum for telling the truth, hopefully Ha-Ha

kamus

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2013, 02:58:46 pm »

I don't think Colin is doing Deans any favours here. That he has banned me from their forum even though I didn't even comment there seems a bit over the top. I suppose he feels that he is "protecting" the Deans brand but  I'm afraid the upshot is that Dean is likely to lose potential business because of his actions. Since he obviously reads this thread, I would be curious as to how he defends his move!?

Putting all that aside, I'm looking forward to continue my build. Thanks again for your advice and comments!
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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2013, 12:04:36 am »

I don't think Colin is doing Deans any favours here. That he has banned me from their forum even though I didn't even comment there seems a bit over the top. I suppose he feels that he is "protecting" the Deans brand but  I'm afraid the upshot is that Dean is likely to lose potential business because of his actions. Since he obviously reads this thread, I would be curious as to how he defends his move!?

Putting all that aside, I'm looking forward to continue my build. Thanks again for your advice and comments!

I agree.
 
For some strange reason Dean's go ballistic about any negatived feedback, there have been several instances on this forum.
 
What I don't countenance/understand is those that automatically leap out of the woodwork to defend a trader/supplier etc without studying the actual commentary.
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Pondweed

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2013, 12:21:14 am »

I don't think Colin is doing Deans any favours here. That he has banned me from their forum even though I didn't even comment there seems a bit over the top. I suppose he feels that he is "protecting" the Deans brand but  I'm afraid the upshot is that Dean is likely to lose potential business because of his actions. Since he obviously reads this thread, I would be curious as to how he defends his move!?

Putting all that aside, I'm looking forward to continue my build. Thanks again for your advice and comments!

Well I wouldn't expect a Christmas card from Deans this year.  %)

Reminds me about when we changed our bathroom set last. I did it... I'm not a plumber but I have a trade so can usually knock a nail in straight, etc. I have put 1 or 2 bathroom sets in before inc. the preceding unit that I was replacing.

When we got the new bath/basin/toilet/sock-washer-set home, I saw that the guy who glassed the bath mould in the factory had lain his resin brush on the inside floor of the bath along with a few other areas of resin & strand marring the baths surface. I said "Oh joy of joys" or some such anglo-saxon saying.

When we rang "B&Q" next day, we explained the baths surface was marred and were put through to someone who explained that there was a plastic sheet that protected the surface of the bath ... that the resin brush marks will be on top of the plastic. So I went to look for this 'sheet' and the only way I could actually find it was by the plug hole and once found and pulled a bit, it was easy to rip it all off leaving a immaculate bath.

There's a moral to this story :-)
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NFMike

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2013, 12:29:41 am »


I agree.
 
For some strange reason Dean's go ballistic about any negatived feedback, there have been several instances on this forum.
 
What I don't countenance/understand is those that automatically leap out of the woodwork to defend a trader/supplier etc without studying the actual commentary.

Not just Dean's, plenty of suppliers who if criticised get a swathe of 'happy users' saying how great they are really. No - if someone has had a bad deal then the trader or his cronies should be apologising and trying to make it good, not just saying "It's you".
I'm always happy to continue dealing with a trader who occasionally gets it wrong but puts it right promptly. A dealer who gets it wrong and doesn't sort it out goes on my blacklist. Simples.

carlmt

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2013, 01:18:13 am »


I agree.
 
For some strange reason Dean's go ballistic about any negatived feedback, there have been several instances on this forum.
 
What I don't countenance/understand is those that automatically leap out of the woodwork to defend a trader/supplier etc without studying the actual commentary.

Where are the people leaping out of the woodwork as you imply above? I only ask as I got a vague impression you might be inferring ME by your use of 'angry smilies' in your response to my earlier post. If I am wrong, I apologise...... However- I would just like to state I am not defending Deans - I simply offered a possible solution to a stated problem with the hull.
Carl

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2013, 08:52:54 am »

Where are the people leaping out of the woodwork as you imply above? I only ask as I got a vague impression you might be inferring ME by your use of 'angry smilies' in your response to my earlier post. If I am wrong, I apologise...... However- I would just like to state I am not defending Deans - I simply offered a possible solution to a stated problem with the hull.
Carl

Carl,
 
As you rightly observe, they have been silent in this instance. O0 O0
 
 This is good, as the focus has remained on the issue/s that have been raised. :-)) :-))
 
Usually it gets way out of hand and the thread has to be locked before the matter is solved. <:( <:(
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John W E

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2013, 08:04:50 pm »

hi there
 
Just dug through archives and found DickyD's build of HMS Amethyst.   Sadly, he isnt with us now, and if he was he would be the first one to help you out with all your problems.   What I seem to remember with Richard's build is I believe he may have acquired the kit second hand and not all of the parts were there.  So, he approached Deans (if I remember rightly) the manufacturer and they helped him out with the missing bits and more information as well.  So the Company are approachable (if you do it right :-) ) .
 
When you first begun to make up this kit, were you under the impression/had you been led to believe that this was similar to an Airfix type of kit construction wise?  As far as I can tell; there arent many model boat kits out there - manufactured by Deans or others which would fall into that category i.e. similar to Airfix - glued together and painted with very little work to be done.   
 
I have my own opinion of kit building, where every kit seems to need (shall we say fettling here and there).   Some more than others and the problem being the more experienced kit builders are of models, they seem to take these slight problem/s in their stride and it's only the (shall we say newcomer who airs any problems) with any particular kit.    Having said that, I have spoken to many modellers who produce models from kits, and they never build the kit as from the box.  They have always altered it in some way - you could speak to anyone and they may say they didnt like the guns or whatever so they made a different one and its often left me thinking - why did they bother buying a kit?   Why not buy the plan and build from scratch - no more difficult - apart from having all the parts there (but then again some are thrown away and remade).   
 
I often wonder should the kit manufacturers bring a grading system - similar to Airfix to help the novice builder.
 
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23016.0.html
 
aye
 
John
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kamus

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2013, 09:09:21 pm »

Thanks for taking the time to comment and especially for the link to DickyD's build thread, John.


In answer to your questions- no, I was fully aware of the type of kit it was and although new to this type of construction, I diligently researched the techniques, materials and tools necessary for the job. I quickly gathered that all of these types of kits  have their quirks and I accepted that. On the other hand, perhaps I wasn't clear on just how "quirky" the Deans kit turned out to be- to wit:


 the instructions were unclear, very badly written with numerous misspellings, appalling grammar, puzzling ambiguities, fractured syntax, important omissions etc.


The hull had confusing extra lines on it (from "a well used mould" according to one of the Dean forum posters) and other issues that I have detailed here in photos. The hull, the plans and the drawn-on styrene sheets rarely match and sometimes differ significantly from each other.


The quality of the fittings ranges from good to poor with most requiring a fair bit of cleaning up but I guess that's pretty normal.


The plans also seemed quite inaccurate in many regards as a comparison with plans I obtained from John Lambert revealed. After adjusting to these shortcomings, I decided to go ahead anyway and accept the challenge, figuring that I would learn a lot in the process.


I should mention that all of my direct dealings with Deans were fine and relatively pleasant: They managed to save me some money on the considerable shipping charge to the US and when I had a question about sanding the hull, they responded promptly with advice. (It turns out that that advice may have been incorrect but that's not the issue atm).


The only issue I had was on the forum itself. When I mentioned my concerns about the kit on the forum, I was threatened with banning unless I self-censored my comments which I did. Later, I made the suggestion that Mr. Dean hire an English major for the summer to rewrite the messy instructions- heck, I even offered to rewrite the Amethyst instructions myself after I finished the build. Somehow that was taken incorrectly as me insulting Mr. Dean and again I was threatened by Colin. After that, I vowed just to stay clear of any hint of criticism as I valued the advice on the forum from Radio Joe and a few others. I hadn't commented there in a few weeks so when I saw that I had been banned yesterday it seems clear I've been banned for my critical (but I think not inflammatory) observations in this thread that you can read here for yourself, none of which I have edited after the fact.


I will survive without Deans forum though it's a pity that Colin feels it necessary to ban me for reasonable comments made on another forum other than Deans. Frankly, I've never heard of such a thing! I figure it's an instant karma situation though. By acting this way, even though he is not a Deans employee, Colin presents an unsavory view of Deans to the modeler's community at large for seeming so petty and unnecessarily defensive. I imagine that many people will read threads like this and steer away from Deans on principle. He may have rid himself of a "problem poster" but instead cost Deans business that they otherwise would have been getting.


I'm putting that all behind me now as I soldier on with the build. I thank you and the others for taking the time to comment. Time to go cut some fiddly little bits of wood :-)


Dave
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derekwarner

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2013, 02:29:22 am »

kamus...........thank you for what I read appears to be a balanced view ....from the words on this forum......all things considered......

I have no knowledge of the manufactured product nor the manufacturer

Certainly if dicky were still with us .......he would offer critical but constructive comment to assist..........

Being sent to a banned list for being critically constructive is certainly questionable...... >>:-(

Stick with your build.......post as many photographs as you are comfortable with.......you will have many viewers here :-)) ....& some may be able to offer assistance as needed......

Derek
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kamus

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2013, 04:10:20 pm »

UPDATE: I'm happy to report that Colin and I have settled our differences amicably- I have been reinstated on Deans forum and all is well. Misunderstandings happen too easily when people post things on the internet without the benefit of context and face-to-face interaction so these situations can spiral out of control all too often. It's to his credit that we were able to avoid any escalation in tension. Again, I will state it was never my intention to bash Deans as a whole. The fact that I have been critical of some specific aspects of the kit should not be construed to be any more than that and I do not wish to wield a broad brush to tar Deans reputation in general. That would be unfair given my limited experience with a single kit. All the problems I have with the kit are surmountable and I look forward to completing the build without further drama.


Next step is to drill some holes for the rudder and prop assemblies. Quite frankly, I'm nervous about this step but then again, I've been nervous about every step so far! :-)


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Hmshood

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2013, 07:15:44 pm »

I am pleased to hear this and would support a comment earlier from a fellow Mayhemer that those of us that have built a number of models form kits almost expect a degree of modification and this is often part of the challenge to get the model just right and up to the demanding standards we often impose upon us.

Please keep us informed of the progress and remember we have a lot of experience for you to draw on

Regards

Vic
  O0
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smileyjon

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2013, 11:36:10 am »

I just wanted to say good luck with your build and please post updates and photos as I will be following your work and experiences.


I too am a 'newby' and am about 2 months into building the trawler Maggie M MBE from Model Slipway, my first venture after retiring (and building the Trumpeter ROMA) to get the 'feel' of model building with old eyes and bad fingers !


Like you I spent many weeks burning the midnight oil doing internet research on tools, skills and different kits.  Maggie M was well recommended as being from a good company and relatively easy to build ? ? ?


Quite a learning curve I must say, trying to glue beams and stuff to grp, and cutting and drilling the stuff; spray painting, superglues and fixers, electrics, radio gear, brass, dreaded white metals, plastics....it goes on forever........... and the cost is scary too.


I'm attempting to modify my kit to the Maggie M as she was after converting to a guard / working boat, and hoping to install a few dozen lights too.  So far there have been many tantrums, many items get built more than once and I have found there are a few minor issues with plan errors and thin pointy bits breaking off the metal fittings.   My wife thinks that sometime next year we will be adding another sunken model boat to a lake somewhere !


Anyway....good luck with everything and treat every process as a challenge ...sometimes an enjoyable one.


Jon
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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2013, 11:53:28 am »

Mine after TWO MONTHS... none of the upper parts are fixed yet....just posed for the photo !


About to spray the deck...scary



Jon

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #48 on: December 21, 2013, 08:21:13 am »

I just wanted to say good luck with your build and please post updates and photos as I will be following your work and experiences.


I too am a 'newby' and am about 2 months into building the trawler Maggie M MBE from Model Slipway, my first venture after retiring (and building the Trumpeter ROMA) to get the 'feel' of model building with old eyes and bad fingers !


Like you I spent many weeks burning the midnight oil doing internet research on tools, skills and different kits.  Maggie M was well recommended as being from a good company and relatively easy to build ? ? ?


Quite a learning curve I must say, trying to glue beams and stuff to grp, and cutting and drilling the stuff; spray painting, superglues and fixers, electrics, radio gear, brass, dreaded white metals, plastics....it goes on forever........... and the cost is scary too.


I'm attempting to modify my kit to the Maggie M as she was after converting to a guard / working boat, and hoping to install a few dozen lights too.  So far there have been many tantrums, many items get built more than once and I have found there are a few minor issues with plan errors and thin pointy bits breaking off the metal fittings.   My wife thinks that sometime next year we will be adding another sunken model boat to a lake somewhere !


Anyway....good luck with everything and treat every process as a challenge ...sometimes an enjoyable one.


Jon

Welcome to the world of model boat building

kamus

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Re: First time builder tackles HMS Amethyst (Deans)
« Reply #49 on: December 21, 2013, 07:07:58 pm »

Looks pretty good to me! You're quite a bit ahead of me- I'm still working with getting the beam widths correct, putting in the deck bearers, rudder and the running gear. It looks like you got through that stuff nicely. Good luck!
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