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Author Topic: Aziz - Hawaii build  (Read 79073 times)

Liverbudgie

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #250 on: July 07, 2014, 04:51:43 PM »

Convention is that outward turning props are used for best maneuverability (tugs) while inward turning props are best for speed (warships).

Actually, it's the other way round. Though these days it's not quite so defined as it used to be. Most modern ferries, support vessels etc., do have inboard turning  props to aide manoeuvrability. Until fairly recently though, most propellers turned outboard on vessels with twin or quadruple screws. The latest Maersk triple E class do have inboard turn props but, this is because of the increased fuel efficiency this set up apparently gives.   

To be certain though with a modern build, you really need to see the backend.

LB
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inertia

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #251 on: July 07, 2014, 06:16:11 PM »

Actually, it's the other way round. Though these days it's not quite so defined as it used to be. Most modern ferries, support vessels etc., do have inboard turning  props to aide manoeuvrability. Until fairly recently though, most propellers turned outboard on vessels with twin or quadruple screws. The latest Maersk triple E class do have inboard turn props but, this is because of the increased fuel efficiency this set up apparently gives.   

To be certain though with a modern build, you really need to see the backend.

LB
Do you think I'm going to argue? Nah. This one has more legs on it than a football crowd and opinion is divided like little else. HMCC Sentinel was definitely set up with 5-blade outward-turning props; I have a photo but I can't put it on here for copyright reasons (it's Vosper's!). All I can say is that my own Aziz was set up as I described and would turn on a tanner. Never tried it propped the other way. Ditto Vliestroom, Al Khubar, Sentinel and Dutch Courage.
Like someone used to say, suit yourself. It's easy enough to swap the props over and click the servo reverse switch on the throttle channel.
DM
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colin-d

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #252 on: July 07, 2014, 06:20:11 PM »

this might clarify...
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inertia

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #253 on: July 07, 2014, 06:24:13 PM »

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seathug

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #254 on: July 07, 2014, 06:34:25 PM »

Good morning

inertia won the debate of these props? {-)
Ill switch it around :-))


portholes :} looks ok to me so
Do I install it now or paint the hull first

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John W E

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #255 on: July 07, 2014, 06:49:37 PM »

Confucious say me think prop rotation confusing thing; the way I was led to believe; or the way I understand it is, we have 2 debates going on here over a single problem.
1 - is discussing open propellers and rotation
The open propellers - the reason that they affect manouvreability of the vessel so much in the way that they turn is because of a syndrome known as 'paddle wheel affect' - this is where as the props turn there is a tubulance built up on the tip of the blades which act as a paddle wheel trying to pull the vessel to the same direction as the rotation of the prop.  If the prop turned outboard it would try and pull the vessel slightly to the port.    So, therefore, on a twin open prop vessel, both props turning outboard would mean that the thrust was going either side of the vessel and no thrust would be upon the single rudder.   If both props turn inboard the thrust from the tips of the propeller are forced into the centre line or the keel of the vessel.   As the vessel moves forward the thrust is directed mainly in the centreline of the ship giving more mobility to the steerage of the ship.
2 - others discussing enclosed props as in cort nozzles
With cort nozzles you cancel out the paddle wheel affect and create a similar affect of a water jet - where you have no escaping of side thrust off the tips of the prop and it is all directed out into 2 even thrust patterns and you will find that on all 'fixed' court nozzles you will have the rudders set in the middle of the flow path.   In theory it doesnt matter which way the props turn inside the cort nozzle cos the thrust is still going in the same direction and you have no paddle wheel affect.   
 
This is just a brief explanation as I understand it.  The other thing is the closer the tips of the blades are to the inside of the nozzle the more affective it is and also the actual inner shape of the nozzle affects the performance.
 
Last but not least I did a grand search of the web to see how many photographs of the Aziz build I could come up with - and to find out which way the props turned and guess what came up TugKenny on a good few occaions - a red Aziz sinking at Whickstead bows to the sky.
 
In my book these are 2 totally different problems :-)
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inertia

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #256 on: July 07, 2014, 06:53:36 PM »

 :-X   (Except that "Nellie" has twin rudders)
DM
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John W E

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #257 on: July 07, 2014, 07:08:17 PM »

:-X   (Except that "Nellie" has twin rudders)
DM
;) which models have cort nozzles and which ones dont ?
For open prop models it doesnot matter how many rudders you have , its the prop rotion that will afect the manouvreability  O0 O0
aye
confused
john  {-) {-) {-)
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inertia

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #258 on: July 07, 2014, 11:15:14 PM »

Yes, isn't it? Shall us call it quits, marra?  :kiss:
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derekwarner

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #259 on: July 07, 2014, 11:31:48 PM »

Guys....lets not confuse this ship builder  :o the image below if I am not mistaken are example of VPP......variable pitch/reversible propeller blades  O0....

Would it not be logical to hand the propellers as per the model manufacturers instructions?  {-).......Derek
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Derek Warner

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John W E

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #260 on: July 07, 2014, 11:33:10 PM »

hi ya my marra
 
well someone has to keep you on your toes since Riggers has gone over to model car racing and he left instructions that you are like a grandfather clock that needs winding up every 28 days  {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
aye
john
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seathug

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #261 on: July 08, 2014, 08:45:17 PM »

Ok now that we got that props cleared up {-)

Can I use a metal clamp to clamp the motor in place?
Like this one




im worried if  itll affect the motor in any way since metal is conductive

im thinking of just clamping that motor in place
That way I can easily remove the motor at any time

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seathug

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #262 on: July 09, 2014, 04:53:48 AM »



Looks clean if its simple like this
Will it work if its just like this?
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Cyberdan

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #263 on: July 09, 2014, 02:24:01 PM »

It should work just fine. I can't see a problem with the clamps being metal but the motors could potentially try ti "spin" themselves due to the water resistance and change the alignment to the shafts and in turn damage the gearboxes, for this the solution is quite simple, think bicycle inner tube section cut to make a strip and inserted between the clamp and motor. It should keep everything in place and provide a very minute amount of antivibration cushioning as well  O0 
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seathug

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #264 on: July 09, 2014, 05:40:06 PM »

Cyberdan  :-))

Thanx for the advice
Ill make sure to do that

My plan is to get a half inch plank of wood
Glued this jig to the wood



that should prevent the motor from twisting
then clamp it down to that plank of wood
With the rubber in between
so it wond slide out from that plastic jig :-))
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seathug

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #265 on: July 11, 2014, 08:54:33 AM »

Final set up for the motors



I used the jig for the gearings
Just to make sure it will not twist in any way

<a href=http://s1169.photobucket.com/albums/r509/rustler333/?action=view&current=20140710_213645_zpsb857eb32.jpg target=_blank><img src=http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r509/rustler333/20140710_213645_zpsb857eb32.jpg border=0 alt=>[/url]
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CyberBOB

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #266 on: July 11, 2014, 07:27:19 PM »

I like it!  Motor held in place with a clamp, gearbox held with the mount.  Bike inner tube to help hold things and dampen vibration, propellors turning inwards at the top, so when the tug is moving forward, the motors are pressing against the wood instead of pulling up on the clamps.


I would recommend captive nuts on the bottom of the wood, and bolts from the top instead of screws, so the wood doesn't get chewed up if you need to remove the motors.
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seathug

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #267 on: July 11, 2014, 07:52:22 PM »

Hi bob

The bolt will be screwed from under the block( penetrate the block)
Ill use jbweld to hold it in place with x groves on the block
To make sure the jbweld have something to hold on
And its just a matter or tightening the nuts to hold the motor bracket in place
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CyberBOB

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #268 on: July 11, 2014, 07:59:29 PM »

Perfect!


And simpler than my idea!

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seathug

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #269 on: July 11, 2014, 08:17:11 PM »

I got the idea from everyone {-)
Now I need to waterproof this with that stinky stuff
Man that thing really smells baddd
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seathug

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #270 on: July 13, 2014, 08:19:46 PM »

Hmmm I didnt post my electronics from dave
Thanx to dave for helping me sort out my electronics :-))



I have Had it for a while now
But forgot to post it :}

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seathug

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #271 on: July 14, 2014, 12:36:24 AM »



Ready to be installed
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seathug

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #272 on: July 14, 2014, 09:52:51 PM »

Trial and error again {-)
That picture above is not going to work
The plan was to glue that whole block on the hull
If I was to glue that now
I wont be able to removed the couplers anymore
Since that jig for the gearing is also glued on to that motor mount
Im thinking of a way to make that gearing jig removable
Incase I need to replace couplers etc.
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inertia

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #273 on: July 14, 2014, 11:31:27 PM »

Not necessarily, old fruit. If you arrange for the shafts to be removable from the rear i.e. by making the rudders and their shafts removable first, then you can withdraw the prop shafts and unscrew the couplings as they go. At that stage the motors can be removed if necessary etc. I have posted a suggested method for making the rudders removable elsewhere. It might even be on another forum - it's just too late to look.
Dave M
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seathug

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Re: Aziz - Hawaii build
« Reply #274 on: July 15, 2014, 01:02:18 AM »

Hi dave

Ohh I have seen your removable rudder
which I think its smart thing to do :-))
Im still looking for  wheel collars that is a bit longer than the regular one

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