Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15   Go Down

Author Topic: The sad decline of the model shop  (Read 59178 times)

cos918

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,168
  • Location: Abingdon
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #200 on: January 05, 2017, 06:58:24 PM »

ALL products are sold at a mark-up, that's how the shop earns money to stay open. Along the way they take the risk of stocking stuff that might not sell, having it to hand so we don't need to wait for shipping and offering advice and assistance.

Cutting out the middle man is fine if you are happy to see the demise of the model shop. Just don't complain when the middle man isn't around to sort out problems and the man in China couldn't care less about you.


with out naming said shop or item . The uk Shop sell item for 1.20 each + p/p . Same item from China is 5.64 for X20 items with free p/p so that works out at 28 pence each . Uk has over a 300% mark up . This is one example of many .
For advice there loads of places ,forums ,you tube ,manufacturers website or email etc . How many people who work in model shops use the stuff ?
Yes shops can make a profit but there limit and 300% is taking the "xxxxx" .
 I have worked in a model shop. Most good shops will know whats selling and whats not so will stock the correct stock .
Man in China takes pay pal . If man in china gives no answer there Pay pal steeps in and you get a refund . Done this before .






John
Logged

Buccaneer

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 329
  • Location: Ringwood Hants
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #201 on: January 05, 2017, 07:34:09 PM »

I would love to support my local model shop. Unfortunately it is Westbourne Models, and 6 fuel and car parking before I even go through the door.
John
Logged

unbuiltnautilus

  • Portsmouth Model Boat Display Team
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,073
  • Location: Portsmouth, England, third rock from the Sun....
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #202 on: January 05, 2017, 07:51:11 PM »

You do get a better class of insult from our local shop.
Not had a coffee in a long time so customer service is not as good as it was.
1 possible saving grace is that unbuiltnautilus does have a grasp of the basics and you can get some good advice almost free of charge.

Wouldn't swap a face-to-face over the counter chat for purely internet shopping.
I look on it more as a social exercise keeping him off the streets and secure behind the shop door.

Bob



Why, Bob, you old sweetheart, I knew giving you discount would one day pay dividends...I am however still waiting for that day :}


Posted from behind the cage.


PS, would love 300% mark up, lucky to get 30% these days. What is p&p from China for a sheet of ply and a couple of metre lengths of balsa anyway??
Logged
Listen politely, nod approvingly, then do what you want, works for me!

phil_parker

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
  • Location: Leamington Spa
    • Phil's Workbench
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #203 on: January 05, 2017, 09:57:50 PM »


with out naming said shop or item . The uk Shop sell item for 1.20 each + p/p . Same item from China is 5.64 for X20 items with free p/p so that works out at 28 pence each . Uk has over a 300% mark up . This is one example of many .
For advice there loads of places ,forums ,you tube ,manufacturers website or email etc . How many people who work in model shops use the stuff ?
Yes shops can make a profit but there limit and 300% is taking the "xxxxx" .
 I have worked in a model shop. Most good shops will know whats selling and whats not so will stock the correct stock .
Man in China takes pay pal . If man in china gives no answer there Pay pal steeps in and you get a refund . Done this before .

John

How much profit IS a model shop allowed to make? I don't think anyone running a model shop is getting rich, even with the massive 98p markup. Maybe they pay the people working in the shop too much money?

As someone else has said, how much for a sheet of ply from China?

And man in China might give refund if goods don't turn up, but what happens if they don't work as expected? He's done his bit, you are on your own. If PayPal refunded every time someone has a grumble, and judging from other forums they won't, then they will go bust.

A model shop will be able to help in lots of ways, not just a refund on faulty goods. I can't understand why people are so keen to see them go.
Logged

Jonty

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 849
  • Location: Hoselaw - facing The Cheviot (Scottish Borders)
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #204 on: January 07, 2017, 11:35:42 PM »

The problem seems to be that most people have no understanding of what is involved in running a high street shop, or any other business for that matter. No understanding of the cost of borrowing money, taxes, business rates, insurance, utilities, and all the rest. If we are to prosper as a nation our education system needs to address this.

I owned and ran a hardware and DIY shop, not so different from a model shop, for ten years. When a lad came to work for me I would tell him that he should never go in the pub next door and mention figures. Suppose we took 360 one day, that did not mean that I had 360 to stick in my back pocket. I would then show him a couple of simple sums:

                    Takings                                        360
                    Less VAT                                        60 
                                                                       300
                    Cost to restock (50% GP)            150   
                                                                        150
                    Overheads                                       40
                                                                          110

                     His wages                                      50
                     My wages                                     60

But on a bad day, and there plenty of them after 2008, we might take only 180 - do the sums yourself. And we were trying to compete with people working from their garages, and in China where the government is reputed to cover the seller's postage costs.
                       
   

Logged
I eat my peas with honey,
I've done it all my life;
It makes the peas taste funny,
But it keeps 'em on the knife.

NFMike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,061
  • Location: Hythe, Hants, UK
    • Plague Marine Services
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #205 on: January 07, 2017, 11:57:55 PM »

with out naming said shop or item . The uk Shop sell item for 1.20 each + p/p . Same item from China is 5.64 for X20 items with free p/p so that works out at 28 pence each . Uk has over a 300% mark up . This is one example of many .
With Jonty's post above in mind ... That's 300% (shock horror) of very little. (There are ruder versions.) It's 92p.
At minimum wage, excluding any other overheads, that's about 8 minutes. It probably takes 5 minutes to do the paperwork, pack and address it, so by the time you take the other overheads into account there's precious little left of that 300%.
I'm not even a shopkeeper, but this sort of failure to understand basic economics is frighteningly common. In a similar vein, how many people price their car journeys by the cost of petrol? Yes, most of them, because that's the only cost they see day-to-day. Servicing, tyres, depreciation all get ignored but can significantly add to the cost per mile (I'm ignoring fixed costs like tax and insurance).

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,296
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #206 on: January 08, 2017, 01:39:35 AM »


Exactly true . 300% or more is not unusual on small or slow moving items, even in Walmart


BTWThe full cost of running a car is in the region of a pound per mile. Unless you own an older car one of the biggest costs is depreciation.
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,453
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #207 on: January 08, 2017, 02:13:05 AM »

Yes TT...every component in driving a motor vehicle costs........being self employed for 20+ years prior to retirement......I did understand tyre costs :-))

In OZ & my humble 2.4 litre Mitsubishi wagon chew tyres at a cost of 13.33 cents per kilometre  O0.... and that is with a very conservative driving manner

Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

Onetenor

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 269
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Meliden N Wales
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #208 on: January 08, 2017, 04:20:37 AM »

I agree that we should support our local model shop,( mine is a 40min drive away) but when you go into your local shop and ask for boat parts and you get a reply sorry do not do boat parts, as there are so few of you it is not worth us stocking any parts but I can sell you RTR boat.


Ask for any rod or strip over 12" long, you get sorry do not do it as it takes to long to resort it after some one has put it back in the wrong place,


Now if I was into Train's - Planes - Helicopter's or Car's then they would bend over back words for me.


So you see for me the Webb is the only way to go.



B&Q and similar stores stock , meter long rod studding, extrusions etc Yes they may be mixed up but generally easily sorted
Logged

Onetenor

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 269
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Meliden N Wales
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #209 on: January 08, 2017, 04:25:47 AM »

B&Q and similar stroes stock meter long rod, studding, extrusions etc/ Yes they may be out of place but easily sorted if you keep your eyes open and have patience. John
Logged

Subculture

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,988
  • Location: North London
    • Dive-in to Model submarines
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #210 on: January 08, 2017, 04:55:03 PM »

Years ago a lot of stuff available in model shops was made by companies based here in the UK or in Continental Europe. Japanese companies started to make big inroads in the late 70's, but the supply was always via UK distributors.

Fast forward to today, and most of the stuff comes from China, and via the internet they've worked out how to trade directly, hugely undercutting the more conventional supply chains.

I think there will be a small amount of model shops that manage enough trade to stay open, but the days when you could find one or more in almost every high street are gone and will not return.

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,802
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #211 on: January 08, 2017, 05:15:07 PM »

There are a lot less modellers about these days too so a much smaller market than there used to be.

Colin
Logged

Subculture

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,988
  • Location: North London
    • Dive-in to Model submarines
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #212 on: January 08, 2017, 05:27:24 PM »

Maybe so. Paradox is I've never known such a huge range and high quality of product as we have available today. Who's buying all this stuff?

Jonty

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 849
  • Location: Hoselaw - facing The Cheviot (Scottish Borders)
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #213 on: January 08, 2017, 05:50:18 PM »

I think the answer to that one is that wherever you are based you have the whole world as a market, not just the people a bus ride away.

An Ebay shop helped us to survive, and we had Australians tell us that it was easier for them to buy their flypapers (!) from us rather than drive a long way to the nearest town and possibly find them out of stock. Most things took just four days to arrive.
Logged
I eat my peas with honey,
I've done it all my life;
It makes the peas taste funny,
But it keeps 'em on the knife.

BFSMP

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,100
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Knott End on Sea
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #214 on: January 08, 2017, 05:51:30 PM »


you cannot put a  price upon the enjoyment and peace in mind of browsing in a well stocked model shop................something you cannot do on line.


to look at and hold the tactile items on the shelves and displays that you can imagine going into your model [ and items for dolls houses is no different to other forms of modelling, is just immeasurable to a model maker. the smells of wood and other items and the browsing is worth far more to me than a 1.00 reduction of an item from china or on line hobby stores.


sadly this experience will be long gone if people worry about their pocket rather than the experience and joy of a visit to their local shops.


And before anyone tries to put me on the spot and ask when the last time I browsed a model shop............Saturday.....Lancaster model shop and speedy's at Broughton, Preston.


Jim.


Logged
life is like arranging deck chairs on the Titanic!

John W E

  • I see no ships !!
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,551
  • Location: South shields
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #215 on: January 08, 2017, 06:11:40 PM »

hi there

I have also learnt Just recently that the model shop I used to go to Gladstones in North Shields has closed down - that is another loss to chalk up on the wall.

As has already been said, I do miss the browsing around the shops - 10 mins to sort out and purchase and 2 hrs looking at the rest of the stuff that you would like to buy. Also talking to friends you would meet from other clubs when they too were browsing.

But lets hope that for every shop which closes we gain another on the world wide web - hopefully.    Put it this way = if we could turn back the clocks to 1970 and we had said not long from now you will be able to chat to someone in the USA; discuss prices in the shops there and even purchase from there with ease - and also buy items from Australia - speak to friends easily as well in Australia or indeed around the world - what would we have thought.

So, in balance what we have lost in shops - I personally think it has been well made up for with the Web - in more ways that one.

John
Logged

phil_parker

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
  • Location: Leamington Spa
    • Phil's Workbench
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #216 on: January 08, 2017, 06:58:00 PM »

So, in balance what we have lost in shops - I personally think it has been well made up for with the Web - in more ways that one.

John

It depends what you want to buy. For some things, the web is fine:
RTR boat
Speed control
RC gear
Motors

but for others, mail order isn't so easy:
Plywood/foamboard/Depron
Sheet of plastic
Length of wire/tube/wood
Paint

Indeed, paint is a special problem in the UK as it can't be sent through the post, courier delivery only.

You CAN buy all this stuff and have it posted, but the cost is terrific and will put most people off. Going to shows is a way around this for many people, but model boat shows are few and far between so you'll need to plan your build very carefully.
Logged

Jonty

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 849
  • Location: Hoselaw - facing The Cheviot (Scottish Borders)
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #217 on: January 09, 2017, 08:57:16 PM »

 I've long felt that the only shops worth visiting are model shops and second-hand bookshops. I buy a lot on the web, but you can't beat a good browse - and the chance of a serendipitous find.
Logged
I eat my peas with honey,
I've done it all my life;
It makes the peas taste funny,
But it keeps 'em on the knife.

cos918

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,168
  • Location: Abingdon
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #218 on: January 09, 2017, 09:58:56 PM »

It depends what you want to buy. For some things, the web is fine:
RTR boat
Speed control
RC gear
Motors

but for others, mail order isn't so easy:
Plywood/foamboard/Depron
Sheet of plastic
Length of wire/tube/wood
Paint

Indeed, paint is a special problem in the UK as it can't be sent through the post, courier delivery only.

You CAN buy all this stuff and have it posted, but the cost is terrific and will put most people off. Going to shows is a way around this for many people, but model boat shows are few and far between so you'll need to plan your build very carefully.


Cost of parking Fuel etc . If you work it out its not very far to travel before Post and Packing would beat the cost of Fuel and Parking . Yes you can get paint in the post . 
One big plus when buying wood is you can select the good timber . Went to a big DIY store and some of the timber was so warped dont know what you could use it for apart from fire wood .
4d models in london do mailorder sheets of plastic and wood etc


john
Logged

Onetenor

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 269
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Meliden N Wales
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #219 on: January 10, 2017, 06:19:21 AM »

Something I've noticed is people saying " A shop I used to go to has closed " Could that be because they " used to go to " if you take my meaning :((
Logged

phil_parker

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
  • Location: Leamington Spa
    • Phil's Workbench
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #220 on: January 10, 2017, 11:41:50 AM »

Yes you can get paint in the post . 

From where? It's illegal according to the Post Office to put solvents through the mail and I know one paint supplier who concurs and will only ship via courier. Fine if you want a lot, but a bit pricey if it's just a single tin of Humbrol.

As for the fuel/parking, that's the point of a town centre model shop. You get to visit when out doing other things so the cost can be spread amoung all the purchases. I agree that if you make a long and special trip, the cost/benefit changes but most of use have to go into town for other shopping. Some are even told they are going into town for other shopping and the model shop would be the highlight of the trip!
Logged

IanLloyd

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Model Boat Mayhem Forum is Great!
  • Location: Hampshire
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #221 on: January 13, 2017, 11:01:28 AM »

This situation is not new and not only for model boat shops. Having raced model cars for many years I have seen 5 local (to me) shops close down making it almost impossible not to have to use the internet. There are other ways to use the internet though, still buying from genuine UK based model shops and not China. This then keeps or at least helps keep, those model shops going. Obviously.

For me personally one of the great regrets I have about local shops closing down is, or was, my regular Saturday morning sit down in the shop with a coffee (supplied by the proprietor of course, I supplied the donuts!) and going through all the bits and pieces they had on show, discussing new parts coming out etc etc etc. I rarely went home without spending something. I really really miss that being able to actually look at in the flesh and handle those bits and pieces.

Now my model car racing days are, while not numbered, diminishing due to age, loss of reaction time and to be honest it is getting quite expensive, my model boat building, or attempting to build, career is blooming. However it is at least an hour by car to my nearest boat shop and they are not all they could be. So again the internet comes into use. I do try as much as possible to use genuine UK based shops that actually have a high street presence (rather that these internet only run from the shed in the back garden type places) as there will be days when I can spend the time to visit that real shop and look at real parts on real shelves. There is nothing better for me anyway. Just very very envious of those of you who have one close by.

My advise for anyone would always be to use your local model shop even if you have to order online from them.
Logged

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,296
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #222 on: January 13, 2017, 11:29:07 AM »

Maybe surprising to some, but model shops are also closing down in China. The city I live in has 7 million inhabitants, and the only model shop we had closed down. In the last city I lived in (popn 6 million) there were two model shops. One for expensive ready to fly models and one very small model shop for people who made models.
In Shanghai (popn. 23m), after months of searching I only found two good model shops that were more than toy shops. One was silly expensive and specialized in cars and helicopters but did have some ARTR boats. The other was a general model shop with lots of plastic kits, but also some RC and even a few boat models (maybe 10). Both have now closed.


In China people are too busy for hobbies, and the days of buying your 5 year old the biggest most expensive toy/model have gone.


Even on the main internet selling platform (Taobao.com) it is hard to find any models, other than a few RTR fast boats.
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

phil_parker

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
  • Location: Leamington Spa
    • Phil's Workbench
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #223 on: January 13, 2017, 02:42:57 PM »

A couple of years ago, Hong Kong is stuffed full of model shops.

http://philsworkbench.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/hong-kongs-many-model-shops.html

I could have filled a container myself!
Logged

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,296
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: Model shop closure
« Reply #224 on: January 13, 2017, 04:03:29 PM »

There is a well known hobby website in HK that is blocked in mainland China. HK is a magical market city with mainland China as the ugly sister
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15   Go Up