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[midships]

hi all
i am new to ic powered  models and rather like the look of the atlantic challenger or moonraker and would value some advice on the following points
if i were to go down the ic root would i need a separate 26cc engine for each jet drive
2 if i had to go down the electric route which brushless motor could i use to gain the same performance
3 some stretches of the river which i sail my electrics on (not very fast boats } are used by  anglers


in your expereance  how reluctant are local enviromental agencys for using ic motors ,in view of the projected costs £1000 and i have no lakes near me or transport to go further afield would i be better off using electric just in case


thanks for your time
midships


 

[nick_75au]

Electric all the way,


I know of a Moonraker that goes really well on 700 motors and lipos and gets 20 minutes run time on 5000 mAH, for the jet drives of the Moonraker Motors that turn 15000 RPM  with at  least 450 watts power, this equates to about a 1000Kv motor run on 4 cell Lipo.


http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17601__HobbyKing_3536_Brushless_Outrunner_1000KV.html


for example

[martno1fan]

Not sure how big those hulls are but for instance to equal a gas motor your going to need a BIG motor and probably at least 6 s lipos .A friend used smaller outrunners arround the 600-700 heli size motors on one of my 58" Apaches running twin props and his runs 50 mph for arround 8 mins runtime.For better performance youd need larger motors,i have a twin planned with the same hull on 10 s per motor and theyre massive 5694 in runner motors but im looking for well over 60-70 mph.
Mart

[spearfish99]

 Think that you might struggle to find jet units suitable ffor 26cc i.c engines . I have one from the 70's sitting in the garage which was intended for a 10cc glow power. I don't recall seeing anything of late or as big as this.

[w3bby]

Think that you might struggle to find jet units suitable ffor 26cc i.c engines .

MHZ

[black magic racing]

jet drive for 26 cc is not a problem just the cost

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__13388__cnc_precision_jet_boat_drive_x_large.html
as mart has said you will need big brushless motors to get any kind of speed out of it and it hurts me to say this but brushless would be the way to go unless you are 100 percent sure you can run ic
regards kurt     black magic racing

[bj]

Think that you might struggle to find jet units suitable ffor 26cc i.c engines . I have one from the 70's sitting in the garage which was intended for a 10cc glow power. I don't recall seeing anything of late or as big as this.

There is a jet unit produced in New Zealand by a guy called (I think) Adam Wilton who manufactures (?) Jettec Jet Sprint boats. The aluminium hulls are about NZ$650 and the jet units are about NZ$850 the engines are 26cc gassers. Sometimes seen on TradeMe (Kiwi version of eBay).
There is also a Canadian site called modeljetboat.com that is worth a look maybe Snikwah Jets

[nick_75au]

Both Moonraker and Challenger arn't really suitable for IC, Moonraker is an ABS hull which I dont think is up to the vibration from a IC, even if it was done a 0.4 CI would be much closer to what you would use, the challenger is a bit smaller and of the same build material.


Nick

[Martin (Admin)]

I once built a Graupner, Cobra ABS kit with a 2cc OS IC engine.... it went... "Quite fast!" 

[boat captain]

I would investigate if any suitable waters are available before you make your mind up.  a lot of councils etc don't allow internal combustion but allow fast electric.

Joe
 

[jamesmb]

buy a used multi , get public liability , and find a nice stretch of open water with not much wildlife and run it , dont worry about the council or joy police , just stay clear of birds n people , why not run in the sea !
salt water is fine , just remove flexi and wash boat out after running

[hydrobob]

That's the spirit!

[craig dickson]

buy a used multi , get public liability , and find a nice stretch of open water with not much wildlife and run it , dont worry about the council or joy police , just stay clear of birds n people , why not run in the sea !
salt water is fine , just remove flexi and wash boat out after running

When I bought a radio controlled Laser Yacht, I phoned my local council to ask if it was ok to sail it on the local large fresh water lake. The person handling my enquiry didn't have a clue. Her advice was that I would be better finding an alternative place to sail it! I sailed it in the said lake regardless and there were no issues.


Personally I too would risk running an IC boat on the same water. If you don't annoy any people or wild life in the absence of any publicised rules I don't see a problem. However if the intended lake has specific published rules about model boat usage and restrictions then that is a different matter.
Craig

[john44]

Is there a model boat club in your area,they would give you the proper
information.The Council run waters that the club I am a member of use,
state (no internal combustion engined boats allowed)It is also in the
members rule book and if a club member sails one,
 they will be expelled from the club.
However our lake it is a public park, has lots of visitors and wildlife,
 go for fast electric, with the brushless set-ups and lipo batteries available
you can still go fast.

john

[gregk9]

When forming a model boat club I had the greatest uphill battle with councils, even just getting them to allow electric boats to sail, the slightest mention of I/C and they flatly refused.

if its a river you use, or thinking of using, then speak to CRT  [Canals & Rivers trust] formerly British waterways,  they are quite helpful in situations like these, but don't be shocked if issues arise from I/c AND anglers, as the anglers pay a licence fee to fish those areas and they wont be too happy with someone either "scareing" the fish or cutting lines [ha ha]. We as a club found some great water sailing areas, but angles had already got pitches there and we were refused without any further consideration.

You will also need to get some 3rd party liability insurance cover, as sailing in a public place and all that..........


YES, have a search around see if there are any local model boat clubs near to you, as they will of already got all the above sorted and got specific sailing areas, all with full permission, so you wont have to do the groundwork.

[craig dickson]

In my opinion a lot of excellent advice has been given within these threads.

However some people such as myself have only ever built and run IC powered models. For me there is a particular magic associated with IC power plants that simply can not be matched by electric power alternatives. There are certain hulls and boats which I think are only truly brought to life when fitted with IC power plants. That is a personal choice that has lived with me in 35 years of model power boating.

As has been said this can limit available waters to use. For me that means for test runs my nearest water/lake involves a 50 mile trip (Bridlington Model Boat Society). Their facilities are so fantastic and the society so well organised that this is not really an issue for me.

For those of you that really would like to power your boat with an IC engine, do please check out potential clubs and available waters. You might not have to compromise on your choice of power after all as you may be able to find a club within acceptable travelling distance.

Craig

[black magic racing]

please remember even with 3 rd party insurance IF  you do not have permission to use said waters you insurance is not worth the paper its written on,i would strongly recommend joining a club

[tmbc]

yep i agree with kurt insurance is only valid with permission from the owners of the waters you run on ! this is not ony with bmprs but all other societies too !

[jamesmb]

 needing  permission to use waters  doesnt apply to all  insurance / as i have had to claim on my insurance after a accident and i didnt have water usage rights  / just use common sense /and  dont let the joy ploice get you down

[martno1fan]

What insurance did you use James ?.
Mart

[jamesmb]

I have my ic multi boats on my aviva home insurance they cover me world wide  , only cost a extra £2.50 a month and covers all my ic multi boats and transmitters  against accidental dammage and theft  . was worth it when my freind dropped my futaba 14 mz in the lake and killed it . as for my liabilty cover i was using a policy i had while i was self employed engineer , i will be going back to BMPBA liabilty this year as iam no longer self employed , I would deff recommend having expensive boats and radio gear covered on insurance , my freind has the same home insurance as me and they covered the cost of loss of boats and his gear when his caravan was robbed while we where at the pub , 

[gregk9]

Insurance and "liability insurance" are two totally different things. yes, you may of claimed on your house insurance for damage when dropped,[ or someone knicks it] but if you were to hit a swan or worse still, the boat come flying out of the water at shore line and strike a person, that's "liability insurance" and your house insurance will not cover that.
A lot of Local Councils now request a minimum set level of 5 million £ for liability insurance. yes I do appreciate that the majority of model r/c insurers go much higher, im simply quoting the minimum level here guys.

[jamesmb]

i know they are two differnt things ,i never sugested house insurance was for liabilty , i was using my house insurance for model cover and my works liabilty for liability , was just saying its a good thing to have models covered , i have only had one accident where the boat left the lake and decided to take off due to my throatle servo jamming wide open (not a cheap servo either but a £100 futaba ) and as the universe predicts it hit a benz parked lake side , my liability covered the cost of the auto repair ,

[martno1fan]

If your throttle servo jams you need to cut power to your radio this will activate the failsafe asuming you have one and stop your engine,if not make a hard turn and keep her running circles untill she runs out of fuel,a trick the yanks use is to throw towels in the water and run the boat over that and that stops em.

[jamesmb]

yes have used pit towels years ago to stop a merco on a mates boat , i allways use fail safes and my reboot on my futaba gear is very quick , can go into a full accident report if any one would be intrested and  like to hear about it   , but it was a mechanical failure inside the servo , and the boat  had a slapp very hard from my mates boat on turn 2 ,