Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Reefing lines  (Read 3835 times)

Chris G

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 232
  • Andree1v the real thing.
  • Location: East Midlands
Reefing lines
« on: January 05, 2014, 10:45:46 am »

How do I get reefing lines to lay flat? >>:-(


Still building the Billings Yawl and there are about 30 short reefing lines through the main sail. The method I have used is to push the line through the sail using a needle, cutting them off to the correct length and going on to the next. This is fine but they are sticking out like chapel hat pegs. I want them to lay on the sail to give the correct effect when the sail is hoisted.


Any help will as usual be gratefully received. Many thanks Chris G
Logged

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,304
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2014, 11:43:14 am »

You could try beeswaxing them. Then bend them flat to the sail like wire.
You could even crimp little kinks into them so that they look more natural.
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

longshanks

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 698
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2014, 01:09:36 pm »

Possibly wipe with dilute PVA glue, baking paper between sail and lines - press/hold flat.

 :-))
Logged

Chris G

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 232
  • Andree1v the real thing.
  • Location: East Midlands
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2014, 02:46:34 pm »

Both solutions sound good and will try both before deciding on which one to use for all of the lines, lots and lots. Think in the future will restrict my modelling to boats with motors.


Thanks again Chris G   
Logged

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,304
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2014, 12:24:37 pm »

I would love to see some pictures.
 :-))
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

Chris G

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 232
  • Andree1v the real thing.
  • Location: East Midlands
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2014, 03:36:51 pm »

This rigging is the stuff of nightmares and of course if you don't do it in the correct order major surgery is necessary. Should be finished by 2015, I have decided to try the beeswax solution.
Pictures as requested. Chris G
Logged

Popeye

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
  • I see no ships!
  • Location: Upminster, Essex, England
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2014, 06:06:59 pm »

How do I get reefing lines to lay flat? >>:-(


Still building the Billings Yawl and there are about 30 short reefing lines through the main sail. The method I have used is to push the line through the sail using a needle, cutting them off to the correct length and going on to the next. This is fine but they are sticking out like chapel hat pegs. I want them to lay on the sail to give the correct effect when the sail is hoisted.


Any help will as usual be gratefully received. Many thanks Chris G


I use a tiny stitch to secure both sides of the reefing line where it passes thru the sail..... does the job fine and is invisible but for the closest scrutiny :-))



Logged
Confucius he say, 'if all else fails.......reach for the  Red Top-Stop'.

Chris G

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 232
  • Andree1v the real thing.
  • Location: East Midlands
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2014, 07:09:33 pm »

Not sure I understand your method but would like to. Sorry to be a pain but could you give a little more info. Thanks
Logged

Popeye

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
  • I see no ships!
  • Location: Upminster, Essex, England
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2014, 07:37:55 pm »

Not sure I understand your method but would like to. Sorry to be a pain but could you give a little more info. Thanks




1.Thread the line thru the sail. (a dab of cyano on the tip of the line to harden it helps it to pass thru)
2. Fold back both sides of the line against the sail so that they lay as though hanging in their normal perpendicular position.
3. Run needle/fine thread thru sail just below spot, and adjacent to the line, where it passes through sail.
4. Pass needle/thread back on other side of line, ensuring that  both sides of the line lay within the  thread loop.
5. Tie off loop(minute spot of cyano to secure knot - don't get any on the sail coz you'll never be able to remove it, and trim.


Can't draw to save me life but hope this helps
Logged
Confucius he say, 'if all else fails.......reach for the  Red Top-Stop'.

Chris G

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 232
  • Andree1v the real thing.
  • Location: East Midlands
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2014, 08:38:24 pm »

I will sit tomorrow and read your method without the benefit of a glass or three of red wine. I think I understand and will certainly give it a try.
Many thanks and I will keep you informed if you wish it. Chris G
Logged

Popeye

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
  • I see no ships!
  • Location: Upminster, Essex, England
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2014, 08:52:43 pm »

I will sit tomorrow and read your method without the benefit of a glass or three of red wine. I think I understand and will certainly give it a try.
Many thanks and I will keep you informed if you wish it. Chris G


If you're really despairate I'll attempt a sketch :D
Logged
Confucius he say, 'if all else fails.......reach for the  Red Top-Stop'.

Netleyned

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,984
  • Location: Meridian Line, Mouth of the Humber
    • cleethorpes mba
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2014, 09:18:16 pm »

The thread acts as a wick to Cyrano.
Better to use a small spot of clear nail varnish.

Ned
Logged
Smooth seas never made skilful sailors
Up Spirits  Stand fast the Holy Ghost.
http://www.cleethorpesmba.co.uk/

longshanks

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 698
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2014, 11:55:43 pm »

Hi Popeye,
I've seen your method used and very effective it is!

Give it a try Chris
Logged

Chris G

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 232
  • Andree1v the real thing.
  • Location: East Midlands
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2014, 02:20:52 pm »

Hello Popeye
Many thanks.
The boss, my boss, known on here as 'Pearlsfirstmate' decided to try your reefing method in an effort to stop my ham fisted attempt and lo and behold success. Photo's of trial attached. Bearing in mind that the model is display only there are in several instances a good and bad side hence the two photo's.
Being clever as she often is she used invisible thread for the second stage, this stuff if you are not aware is available in what used to be called haberdashery shops and is sold like cotton on reels the one we used is 108 mtr 40 I don't know what the 40 stands for but I put it in a mike. and measured it as 13 thou. I am sure you are aware of it but for anybody who isn't give it a try it is invisible but an absolute 'b' to thread on a needle.
Now I need serious help in deciding what I can do or what present I can buy to encourage the boss to tie 65 yes 65 reefing lines on two sails. Any ideas welcome.
Popeye thanks again. Regards Chris G
Logged

Popeye

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
  • I see no ships!
  • Location: Upminster, Essex, England
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2014, 03:52:59 pm »

Hi Chris G


How about several yards of Egyptian cotton sailcloth (Modelling Timbers) for future models to demonstrate how much you value her skills and the unique contribution she will continue to make to your hobby. {-) [size=78%] [/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Glad I could be of assistance.[/size]
Logged
Confucius he say, 'if all else fails.......reach for the  Red Top-Stop'.

Chris G

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 232
  • Andree1v the real thing.
  • Location: East Midlands
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2014, 04:17:57 pm »

Hello Popeye
Thanks for the reply but after the word hobby and the laughing smiley the gobbledegook below is what I got. Is it me? I am also unable to send smileys.
What is going on? Chris G



gobbledegook removed on this one but left above to show what's going wrong.

You do have a short time to remove it.

ken


Logged

Popeye

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
  • I see no ships!
  • Location: Upminster, Essex, England
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2014, 04:55:52 pm »

Don't know either, but it relates to final para.... 'Glad I could be of assistance' :-))
Logged
Confucius he say, 'if all else fails.......reach for the  Red Top-Stop'.

Pearlsfirstmate

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
  • Pearl - the real thing!
  • Location: Nottingham England
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2014, 08:37:48 pm »

Hi Guys,


As somewhat stupidly I volunteered to help with this task, and it's taken me several hours to get this far, I still seem to be having problems with the reefing lines laying flat and looking more than a tangled mess.   The only way I've come up with is to sew the free end as well, but I think it may look a bit too sewn?


Any comments always gratefully received  ok2
Logged

longshanks

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 698
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2014, 12:17:50 am »

Personally I prefer the pics dated the 9th, they were free to blow around but just need to hang in a downward direction.

Cheers
Logged

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,304
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2014, 02:08:01 am »

Thinking tangentially for a moment
It is worth considering that as these lines weather they will change characteristics and possible hang better. Any new cordage is stiff and softens with age and use, even poly/nylon rope.
You could shortcut the process by running your line through a few washes and dryings before using it on the model. A bit like pre-shrinking the sail cloth. If you put it a pocket of your trousers you can put it through the washing machine, and it may even start to grey for you, if you wash it with darks (most cotton thread will do this some color fasts threads will not).
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

dlancast

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,472
  • Location: Bellingham, Washington USA
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2014, 06:16:24 am »

You pose an intersting dilemma Chris,  Physics will always win out in model making, as the weight to scale ratio is just not going to allow your reefing lines to behave in a normal manner.  The one and only RC model I ever built and sailed was the Emma C. Berry.  About a 4ft model, I rigged her with scale reefing lines at the appropriate locations on her sails.  What I found I had to do to keep them in some sort of order when not underway was to spot tack them to the sail with a slight curve aft to simulate flowing the breeze in not quite a "laminar" flow if you will.  To attach the line, I cut each line double its scale length, tied a knot at the mid point and using a needle, poked a hole in the sail and then threaded the line through to the knot and secured with fast glue.  I guess it worked....not one person gave me grief over it  ;)
Good luck,
Dennis
Logged

Popeye

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
  • I see no ships!
  • Location: Upminster, Essex, England
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2014, 11:09:46 am »

I wash my cordage to soften it, dye if appropriate, then hang to dry under very slight tension to reduce risk of shrinkage. Time (and inclination) permitting, I'll leave it  exposed to the elements in the garden for a few days to further weather it


As for reefing lines, leave 'em loose: they'll soon find their natural  lay with the aid of gravity and a bit of weathering

 
Logged
Confucius he say, 'if all else fails.......reach for the  Red Top-Stop'.

JayDee

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 950
  • Model Boat Mayhem is the VERY Best !
  • Location: Warrington Cheshire.
    • JOHN DOWD
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2014, 11:24:34 am »

Hello,

If you are using Cotton, or Poly Cotton thread, it will be too stiff.
My Wife suggests using Silk thread, which is much thinner and very flexible too.
She has been using Silks to make 1/12 Scale dolls for over 25 years, so I am NOT the one to argue !!!.

John.  :-))
Logged
My Projects, Photos and Videos
http://www.john-dowd.

Pearlsfirstmate

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
  • Pearl - the real thing!
  • Location: Nottingham England
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2014, 02:26:47 pm »

Hi Guys


Thanks for all the tips and advice  :-)


I ended up washing the original thread to make it softer and then used Popeye's method of a tiny stitch with the invisible thread.  Once I got my brain in gear and realised that realistically reefing lines wouldn't be that length and also looked at the picture of the yawl I unpicked my previous efforts and made them shorter.


So the 70 reefing lines are now done, "his nibs" seems happy enough with the result and now in my debt once again  ;)







Logged

Chris G

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 232
  • Andree1v the real thing.
  • Location: East Midlands
Re: Reefing lines
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2014, 02:39:18 pm »

70 reefing lines brilliantly done although I have only seen the photo until tomorrow, That is going to cost me dearly !!!!!!!!!!

Thank you and thanks for all of the suggestions on how to crack the problem. Regards Chris G
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up