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Author Topic: Hull Planking  (Read 4833 times)

peter61_uk

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Hull Planking
« on: January 13, 2014, 10:28:49 PM »

I've started the planking on my Ulises build.... I have four rows on so far, starting at the Gunwhales. It's been relatively easy (if not a little tedious). I've now got the measure of the brass pins after bending a few. So far, it looks reasonably ok. Which is troubling me........... I can't help feeling I'm doing something terribly wrong  {:-{ ....... Now a question. Should I keep heading toward the keel or should I stop at some point and start some at the keel to sort of meet in the middle someplace ????

 
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boatmadman

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2014, 10:43:38 PM »

hi,
So far so good, but now I suggest you look here:


http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17422.0.html  planking starts towards the bottom of page 1.


You will see I planked from keel and gunn'l at the same time, and meet at the keel, this is probably the easiest way to plank using parallel planks as it avoids having to fit small curved planks at the keel as you get to the end of the process.


Ian
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peter61_uk

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2014, 11:35:42 PM »

hi,
So far so good, but now I suggest you look here:


http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17422.0.html  planking starts towards the bottom of page 1.


You will see I planked from keel and gunn'l at the same time, and meet at the keel, this is probably the easiest way to plank using parallel planks as it avoids having to fit small curved planks at the keel as you get to the end of the process.


Ian

Thanks Ian, I had a look at your Orca build. So I think I understand a bit more where I'm going with this now.

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CGAux26

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2014, 12:08:12 AM »

Just curious:  Why are you using brass pins (or any pins)? 


I built a Jim Wilder tug, which is a plank-on-frame construction using thin balsa planks.  The instructions say to just glue the planks on with thick CA, which I did.  It worked great.  I would be afraid of splitting planks or frames with pins of any sort.
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derekwarner

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2014, 12:14:33 AM »

Hullo Peter........

1. Planking a vessel is a huge subject......but very rewarding :kiss:.......try a few searches in the SEARCH box here on MHM....... wooden planking or just planking
2. To eliminate bending of the brass nails/pins......you could consider predrilling each pin/nail location with a drill of approx. 80% diameter on the actual nail shank...this may sound laborious but it will actually save time  O0
3. That hammer you have shown is approx. x 2 too big.......using a pin hammer with predrilled holes provides accurate placement of each nail/pin
4. What type of glue are you using?
5. Will the hull be left showing the planking & nails/pins under a clear protective coating?
6. Will you be fibre glassing the completed hull internals?
7. You have shown that you are adding a plank to each side of the vessel [assumed as simultaneously %)] this is critically important to ensure the hull does not distort between the port & stdb sides

Keep up the good work :-)) ....& don't hesitate to ask questions.........Derek
 
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John W E

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2014, 08:47:31 AM »

hi ya Peter
 
build is looking good, you are getting on well.
 
May I make a couple of comments:
 
First one, regarding your planking.  As has already been said earlier it is always best to plank from the keel towards the gunnel and from the gunnel towards the keel.  The way I normally do mine is to plank 5 planks either side of the keel (10 planks in total) first - allow the glue to harden off to prevent any distortion in the frames and then plank up from the gunnel 4 or 5 planks and then allow those planks to harden.   Plank alternatively after that, 2 planks at the keel - 2 planks up from the gunnel until the planking begins to meet at the bilge (the radius on the frame) in the middle.
 
Next thing I observe is how you have located the frames to the building board.   0nce you have finished planking the hull, will you be easily able to remove the white securing blocks from the building board, as you wont be able to get a screwdriver in to release them, unless the frames are just a push fit in between the 2 blocks.
 
Third thing, yes the hammer is a bit big for what you are knocking your brass pins in.   I have put a link in to a hobby store - this is where I get my bits and pieces from.
 
http://www.alwayshobbies.com/tools/hand-tools/hammer-$4-pin-pushers
 
aye
 
KEEP ON WITH YOUR GOOD BUILD THERE.
 
PLENTY MORE PICTURES.
 
Aye
 
John
 
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dreadnought72

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2014, 07:09:48 PM »

^ Agree with all the above.

Just one more point, from me.

The garboard strake (the one right next to the keel) is often the most evil plank on the hull. It twists more than others and it has to fit the edge of the keel tightly - in full size, usually into a carefully prepared rabbet. I would not leave this to the last: trying to accurately cut, let alone shoe-horn a garboard strake inbetween the keel and the next strake would not be easy.

Much better to lay the garboard strake (and preferably a few others neighbouring it) to leave your last required strake at/near the turn of the bilge.  :-))

Andy
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peter61_uk

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2014, 08:34:55 PM »

Just curious:  Why are you using brass pins (or any pins)? 


I built a Jim Wilder tug, which is a plank-on-frame construction using thin balsa planks.  The instructions say to just glue the planks on with thick CA, which I did.  It worked great.  I would be afraid of splitting planks or frames with pins of any sort.

The pins come with the kit and the "destructions" detail using them to secure them to the Bulkhead Formers ......... The Planks are 7mm x 2mm Obeche and surprisingly, they don't seem to split not even close to the ends.
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peter61_uk

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2014, 08:45:20 PM »

Hullo Peter........

1. Planking a vessel is a huge subject......but very rewarding :kiss:.......try a few searches in the SEARCH box here on MHM....... wooden planking or just planking
2. To eliminate bending of the brass nails/pins......you could consider predrilling each pin/nail location with a drill of approx. 80% diameter on the actual nail shank...this may sound laborious but it will actually save time  O0
3. That hammer you have shown is approx. x 2 too big.......using a pin hammer with predrilled holes provides accurate placement of each nail/pin
4. What type of glue are you using?
5. Will the hull be left showing the planking & nails/pins under a clear protective coating?
6. Will you be fibre glassing the completed hull internals?
7. You have shown that you are adding a plank to each side of the vessel [assumed as simultaneously %)] this is critically important to ensure the hull does not distort between the port & stdb sides

Keep up the good work :-)) ....& don't hesitate to ask questions.........Derek

Hi Derek, I've had a good scoot around on here looking at the planking threads........and I think I have my head around it a little better.......... As for the pins, I've now got a small pin pusher and that seems to work well. I'm using a waterproof Aliphatic Glue (Titebond III) is grabs fairly fast and I'm told is easy to sand......... When I've finished I'll be filing off the pin heads and after some sanding and filling I'll cover the outside using a polyester resin and fine fibreglass cloth then I can prepare it for paint.......and yes I've been working simultaneously on port and starboard.
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peter61_uk

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2014, 08:54:20 PM »

hi ya Peter
 
build is looking good, you are getting on well.
 
May I make a couple of comments:
 
First one, regarding your planking.  As has already been said earlier it is always best to plank from the keel towards the gunnel and from the gunnel towards the keel.  The way I normally do mine is to plank 5 planks either side of the keel (10 planks in total) first - allow the glue to harden off to prevent any distortion in the frames and then plank up from the gunnel 4 or 5 planks and then allow those planks to harden.   Plank alternatively after that, 2 planks at the keel - 2 planks up from the gunnel until the planking begins to meet at the bilge (the radius on the frame) in the middle.
 
Next thing I observe is how you have located the frames to the building board.   0nce you have finished planking the hull, will you be easily able to remove the white securing blocks from the building board, as you wont be able to get a screwdriver in to release them, unless the frames are just a push fit in between the 2 blocks.
 
Third thing, yes the hammer is a bit big for what you are knocking your brass pins in.   I have put a link in to a hobby store - this is where I get my bits and pieces from.
 
http://www.alwayshobbies.com/tools/hand-tools/hammer-$4-pin-pushers
 
aye
 
KEEP ON WITH YOUR GOOD BUILD THERE.
 
PLENTY MORE PICTURES.
 
Aye
 
John

Well as of tonight I have five rows of planks  from the gunwhales upward ......... So tomorrow night I'm going to start from the keel down and get a few rows on there and start working my way to meet in the middle as you suggested............. and yes I did think about getting it off the board once I'm done........... The frames are a good tight fit between the blocks and with a little persuasion they'll come out......I did a dry run on it.

............and I now have a small pin pusher I borrowed from those nice chaps in the joiners shop next door at work.
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peter61_uk

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2014, 08:58:31 PM »

^ Agree with all the above.

Just one more point, from me.

The garboard strake (the one right next to the keel) is often the most evil plank on the hull. It twists more than others and it has to fit the edge of the keel tightly - in full size, usually into a carefully prepared rabbet. I would not leave this to the last: trying to accurately cut, let alone shoe-horn a garboard strake inbetween the keel and the next strake would not be easy.

Much better to lay the garboard strake (and preferably a few others neighbouring it) to leave your last required strake at/near the turn of the bilge.  :-))

Andy

Thanks Andy ........... I'm now, as of tonight on 5 rows of planks up from the gunwhales .......... and tomorrow night I'll start tackling the Garboard strake and get a few rows on from there .......... I try to put in a row or two each evening. Anymore than that and I find it too tedious.
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peter61_uk

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2014, 08:56:46 PM »

I have 4 rows now from the keel ............ and four from the Gunwales. So now I'll start working toward each other. It's a bit of a "hatchet Job" at the bow right now. I'll see what it looks like when its trimmed and shaped. I might end up chopping them off flush with the first bulkhead former and putting two balsa blocks in and shape them..... We'll see.
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boatmadman

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2014, 09:05:04 AM »

That's looking good Using balsa blocks at the bow and stern is often the only way to get the shape needed, you will see that I had to do the same on the Bourbon Orca.


Ian
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peter61_uk

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2014, 10:34:51 AM »

That's looking good Using balsa blocks at the bow and stern is often the only way to get the shape needed, you will see that I had to do the same on the Bourbon Orca.


Ian

Your Orca was where I got the idea from .......... I think the stern is looking ok. But the bow is doubtful at the moment. I'll see what it loos like when it's trimmed and sanded. But I think the balsa thing may well be easier in the end.
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peter61_uk

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2014, 07:47:04 PM »

Finally starting to see the light at the end of the (planking tunnel) ............Even though it's only been 3 weeks since the kit arrive It seems like I've been doing the planking for most of my life.  ok2
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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2014, 08:20:51 PM »

It's a slow, but rewarding job. 
Looks like you will need some filler.  I (and some others) have used the white drywall spackling material.  Cheap, works well, sands easily and works well under fiberglass and epoxy.
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peter61_uk

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2014, 08:26:51 PM »

It's a slow, but rewarding job. 
Looks like you will need some filler.  I (and some others) have used the white drywall spackling material.  Cheap, works well, sands easily and works well under fiberglass and epoxy.

You noticed then ????  {-) {-) {-)........... I was going to use P38 ...... But if the "spacking" filler does the job, then thall probably be easier to work with.
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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2014, 09:53:42 PM »

Sorry but you should have tapered the planks at the bow. you would have found it a lot easer. Sorry once again.
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peter61_uk

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2014, 10:10:37 PM »

Sorry buy you should have tapered the planks at the bow. you would have found it a lot easer. Sorry once again.
Don't worry .......... Believe me. I've learned a lot on this that I have done wrong.............. and there is going to be a lot of rubbing down, filling and cursing before it's looking anywhere close to ready for some polyester resin and matt ......... let alone paint.

......and the biggest lesson I've learned. Is my next build will be on a GRP Hull  {:-{
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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2014, 08:48:16 AM »

Hi ya there Peter,
You are doing really well for your first time planking and although you feel it is a struggle when you sit back and look at it - it isn't that difficult.  You are feeling it is a struggle because it is a whole new field to you.  You seem to be worrying about using the polyester resin but first things are first - about tapering planks, the way you have gone is the easiest method and there is no right/wrong way of planking a hull JUST THE BEST WAY FOR YOU to achieve the job, which you are doing and really successfully.  Now, there are a lot of fillers which can be used, but the thing to consider is if some of the fillers become damp - will they degrade and come adrift?  that is the only thing to think of when you are choosing the filler, if you are confident that you are going to seal the hull perfectly, then the choice is wide open to you.  You don't have to use water resistant fillers such as P38.
When you come to the time to actually seal the exterior of the hull, then we can discuss the variety of sealers such as polyester resins and epoxy resins plus there is another product called a G4 which might be easier for you to use and therefore are happier with.   Until you reach that stage though, carry on with your planking, you are making a very good job of it.
aye,
John
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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2014, 04:06:24 PM »

Peter, my comment was not meant as a criticism of your work, you have done well. But if no one tells you will never know the right way. THERE IS A RIGHT WAY. To late for this model but if you have enjoyed making it I am sure you will build another. I had looked at your post before, you had started with the garboard strake  and at deck level, working toward the bilge. If you had started at one and worked towards the other, the last planks would have a large curve on the width, ( hard to bend) and long pointed ends. As you have found with out tapper you still end up with pointed ends, and on top of that they don't finish on the frames. You say yourself the bow is a bit of a hatchet job, this is not through your workmanship but the method you used. There are always exceptions to the rule, stealers (short planks) are sometimes used reducing 2 planks to 1 or filling between 2 planks which cant be bent to meet. Also with clinker boats always start at the keel and work up. I have built 5 plank on frame model & 10 clinker life boats, and have learnt by my mistakes. The photos are of a sailing trawler (full size) the planks are tapered although it doesn't show but at the stern the taper towards the quarter can be seen. 
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peter61_uk

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2014, 05:37:26 PM »

Peter, my comment was not meant as a criticism of your work, you have done well. But if no one tells you will never know the right way. THERE IS A RIGHT WAY. To late for this model but if you have enjoyed making it I am sure you will build another. I had looked at your post before, you had started with the garboard strake  and at deck level, working toward the bilge. If you had started at one and worked towards the other, the last planks would have a large curve on the width, ( hard to bend) and long pointed ends. As you have found with out tapper you still end up with pointed ends, and on top of that they don't finish on the frames. You say yourself the bow is a bit of a hatchet job, this is not through your workmanship but the method you used. There are always exceptions to the rule, stealers (short planks) are sometimes used reducing 2 planks to 1 or filling between 2 planks which cant be bent to meet. Also with clinker boats always start at the keel and work up. I have built 5 plank on frame model & 10 clinker life boats, and have learnt by my mistakes. The photos are of a sailing trawler (full size) the planks are tapered although it doesn't show but at the stern the taper towards the quarter can be seen.

No worries ......... I realised your post wasn't a criticism........ and I think I need all the help I can get. I realise that I've taken on a totally different media than I'm used to........ Wood, doesn't always seem to do what I want it to. But, as we learn from our mistakes.... I'm getting a proper full education on this project............ I realise that I've adopted, shall we say, an unorthodox approach, and the filler is going to be doing a bit of overtime. The next one, I'll taper the planks............. And there are still two small lifeboats to build and plank for this model yet. I was going to "clinker" them, but now I'm not so sure.
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peter61_uk

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2014, 05:54:21 PM »

I've finished the planking ......... and ground off the heads of the pins on one side so far with a dremel.............. After I do the pins on the other side I'll leave it a for a day or two to led everything harden off .......... and then a lot of tidying up and sanding.
 
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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2014, 08:11:52 PM »


I dont think that either way of planking is right or wrong - it depends on the builders skill and the final finish of the hull.


If its a yacht or similar to be finished in varnish, then taper planks are ideal, but there is a lot more work involved, mainly in shaping each individual plank as you go along.


If it is intended to paint the finished hull, then what does it matter if it is parallel planks with infill stealers? - You wont see them under the paint if the hull is prepared properly.


I think you have done a great job for your first effort - well done.

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peter61_uk

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Re: Hull Planking
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2014, 08:27:11 PM »

I dont think that either way of planking is right or wrong - it depends on the builders skill and the final finish of the hull.


If its a yacht or similar to be finished in varnish, then taper planks are ideal, but there is a lot more work involved, mainly in shaping each individual plank as you go along.


If it is intended to paint the finished hull, then what does it matter if it is parallel planks with infill stealers? - You wont see them under the paint if the hull is prepared properly.


I think you have done a great job for your first effort - well done.

Thanks ......... A bit of encouragement now and a gain is appreciated........... There's a bit of effort needed to make it look presentable. But preparation and finishing is something I'm pretty good at .......
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