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[fastvee]

Hi all, Just thinking what to use on woodies. (outside, will coat inside with epoxy)

I get that staining is great for coloring and varnish for shine and protect but what products to use and how?

-International original varnish is cheap and available locally www.yachtpaint.com/gbr/diy/products/varnishes/original.aspx

Also some hempel varnishes are available. (classic,duragloss,favourite,satin and 2 component version the diamond)

On the international it reads that is for light colored wood, is there a reason why not use it on darker wood?




Mixing water and oil based products:

Lets say I want to have darker colored wood and want to stain it. I allready have water based stains, can I varnish over it using these traditional yacht varnishes?  -after waiting some time to make sure the water is evaporated from the stain of course.


Hope some1 can assist.

-Pate

[rmaddock]

Hello,

Did you know that you could epoxy the outside too?  It's what full sized boat builders would do.  Then you can varnish over the top of that.  I'm not sure how stains would work though.

[fastvee]

Hi, yes I did know that but dont want to, epoxy makes things look like plastic to me.(but I have never coated a wood boat with it,only fiberglass/carbon hulls)
-and kind of want to do this the old fashioned style.

I just checked the beautiful riva build here forums and that varnish used on that build was  le tonkinois .Found it  locally and all ready have one 0.5l jar of it here  .

And instructions say to use water based stain so that answers to my questions so far lol.

[tigertiger]

And instructions say to use water based stain so that answers to my questions so far lol.

This is an important point, some finishes do not mix together.  There are some varnishes that work OK with non-waterbased stains.
Most products will tell you what they are compatible with, just check the labels.


Another point is to stain before you glue. Otherwise the glue may stop the wood from taking in the stain.
Also you don't need to stain the glueing surfaces of the wood.

[Chris G]

I have a varnished 'Diva' featured on one of the 'Mayhem' forums that has a varnished finish. It was built from an Aero-Naut kit and the wood was crying out for varnish and not paint. It was beautiful.
To get to the point I used an inexpensive propriety varnish "Blackfriar Super Yacht Varnish", spirit based and clear to show the natural colour of the wood.
It was inexpensive easy to use and using it I achieved a lovely finish. Maybe worth a try?
Regards Chris G 

[fastvee]

Hi,Chris I did read that build and that was one of few that made me buy the Diva kit

Will try first the le tonkinois stuff. if it fails then I´ll look something else.


Now the paint:

Is just about any alkyd enamel ok to use under waterline also?  -even the marine paints are for above waterline but our little boats are in the water so little time that it should not matter?

I found cheap (8€/750ml) ,available in many colors .It is decent paint I have used earlier inside fiberglass boats but will it be ok to use outside, like roof, sides and under waterline on wood boat?

it is urethane alkyd enamel(like the marine grade stuff, but for some reason it is marketed as indoor paint...)

Or should I pay 3 times that and get international or hempel boat paints?


I never used brush  on paints before, (other then the stuff on walls) always use spray acrylic stuff but it is winter and -10deg. C outside so I need stuff to use indoors and not die from vapors if possible.

-Pate

[Stavros]

As you have allready found the tonkinois varnish so use it as for using interior paint dont do it
 
Dave

[Chris G]

Hello Pate
I sometimes think that we get too sophisticated when it comes to glue, paint and varnish. I am afraid that I take what I believe is the sensible option and go for a product that will do the job but not at an excessive cost.
Dave is right do not touch interior paint. Also I prefer spirit based paint and regret the day that the beaurocrats decided to take lead out of paint with the exception of children's toys, cots etc.
The Diva that I built and which has been in the water several times was varnished with the 'Blackfriars' I described in the earlier post this was also used on the inside several liberal coats to protect the wood as the boat leaks (most do).
The white on the hull is Humbrol another paint much used here by modellers, again spirit based and if you cannot get it at home I will willingly send you some. The yellow is adhesive 'Trimline' if you have problems getting that let me know.
Anything else I can help with, just ask
Best regards Chris G     Don't you just love the Diva kit?

[fastvee]

That is true that we(or atleast I do) overthink the paints,glues etc, but I have learned that it is cheapest to use best stuff in the long run.(but not always the most expensive).

Just googled humbrol and it is locally available. Thanks for offering to ship it thought.

Spirit based? is that and enamel the same stuff? -cause I only found "humbrol enamel"

Looks like it can be airbrushed so even better. (I am slowly learning to airbrush more and more each day) -so trimline can be sprayed if needed.

The jars are 14ml, some 50ml are these the same what you are writing about? http://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/catalog/16a/Lelut/1493/Humbrol (don´t mind the funny language that we speak over here  )

I guess one 14 ml is just about enough for 2 coats on diva sized boat?


So in general I can use that humbrol stuff on all woody boat builds, under waterline and elsewhere without fear of getting it wet?




I dont have the kit here yet, hoping it will show up tomorrow.
Ordered it cause wanted something simple to start the wood boat side of this hobby.abs and fiberglass are familiar. -hoping it is not too hard to build.

-Pate

[Stavros]

Spirit Based and Enamel are the same and YES it is sprayable.
As far as enough to do a diva sorry cant help you BUT all I say is if you think you will need 2 pots then get 4 as sure as eggs are eggs you will need more
 
 
 
Dave

[fastvee]

Thanks. And yes, will get enough for sure!   Maybe you guys know something about thinning that stuff and cleaning brushes, is regular white spirit/turpentine ok or is it really needed to get humbrol thinner at 3,90€/28ml!

And that humbrol paint is water proof? -no need for clearcoat? -if needed can I use the same wood varnish over these paints ?

Sorry for asking so much but want to do this right the first time...

-Pate

[Chris G]

Clean brushes in white spirit, the cheap stuff, does not usually need thinning. Waterproof and no need for clearcoat.

 Regards Chris G

[Chris G]

Me and airbrushing are enemies, tried it, failed so gave up and now use a selection of brushes.
Easy answer is that spirit based paints wash the brushes in spirit cleaner as opposed to water based where brushes are cleaned in water.
One 14ml will paint the hull of the Diva with some to spare.
The "Trimline" I use is not painted but comes in a pack or roll and is I quote:- ultra thin self coloured hi-tech film etc etc. Esch pack contains 2.5 mtrs of 8 widths from 0.5mm to 10.0mm. TrimLine is the trade name.
I have used it a lot as I cannot paint a straight line
Again if you have problems getting it give me a call.
Regards Chris G

[peter61_uk]

That is true that we(or atleast I do) overthink the paints,glues etc, but I have learned that it is cheapest to use best stuff in the long run.(but not always the most expensive).

Just googled humbrol and it is locally available. Thanks for offering to ship it thought.

Spirit based? is that and enamel the same stuff? -cause I only found "humbrol enamel"

Looks like it can be airbrushed so even better. (I am slowly learning to airbrush more and more each day) -so trimline can be sprayed if needed.

The jars are 14ml, some 50ml are these the same what you are writing about? http://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/catalog/16a/Lelut/1493/Humbrol (don´t mind the funny language that we speak over here  )

I guess one 14 ml is just about enough for 2 coats on diva sized boat?


So in general I can use that humbrol stuff on all woody boat builds, under waterline and elsewhere without fear of getting it wet?




I dont have the kit here yet, hoping it will show up tomorrow.
Ordered it cause wanted something simple to start the wood boat side of this hobby.abs and fiberglass are familiar. -hoping it is not too hard to build.

-Pate

Hi Pate,
If you are going to airbrush or paint the trimline ...... I'd suggest using either a "Fineline" (3m product), Tamiya or Frog Tape ........ They are a little pricey but if you can get it in Finland then it'll be worth the money as you wont get any "bleedover" with them.

[david48]

Hi fastvee
I was in Helsinki a few years ago  if you go down to the big yacht chandlers at the marina you will get the best yacht varnish there Le Tonks is about as good as it gets .Spirt base wood stain in the uk is Colron Abigail choice of colours. If you use a water base glue wash of all the surplus do not let any glue dry on as the stain will not soak into the wood because it has sealed the surface.

Hope this helps David

[fastvee]

Chris, I think I have that stuff , at least in white.  Will try painting it first.

Peter, I have that 3m stuff and other brand version for straight line masking also, used it on cars and bigger hobby stuff and will never use just painters tape anymore 

David, le tonks say it is best to us water based stains but it works well with other kind stains also. nothing wrong with spirit based I´m sure but since I have one kind water based stuff all ready...

Will make sure I have no residue on the surfaces to be stained/varnished.

-Pate