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Author Topic: Humber smack circa 1880- build log  (Read 54916 times)

Brian60

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2014, 07:51:49 PM »

  P24 shows the three strands attached to the winding end, p25 shows the pulley arrangement at the other end of the table. The bobbin in motion is in p26, to the right are the unformed strands and to the left is the formed rope. P27 shows the completed cable laid rope in its formed condition before cutting away from the hooks. I tied a loop around both ends and knotted it before cutting loose, just in case it decided to Ďunravelí itself.
 
The last pic for this post is p28 showing the before and after versions, the two at far left are before and after Egyptian cotton 0.10mm formed into cable. The centre two are before and after 0.5mm rigging cord (maybe Billings not sure) formed into cable. The two on the far right are before and after 0.25mm Egyptian cotton formed into cable.
 

Brian60

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2014, 07:53:03 PM »

  I need rope to a thickness of .75mm and 1.2mm to be in scale with my smack so it has been successful and I will make more in the future, for other models. To my eyes I can tell the difference between ordinary string sold for rigging models and a traditional cable laid rope as you can see in p28, the formed cable has more texture and definition, a four string rope is referred to as shroud-laid. Larger (thicker) rope is made by taking your plaited cable and repeating the process until the desired diameter is reached. Iím sure there are more knowledgeable people than me who will pick up any mistakes in this description, after all I did use Wikipedia as a reference!
 

dlancast

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2014, 08:28:16 PM »

Brian,


Very nice work sir.  The deck detail shot on Albatross does not get any better than that!  Fine job on the rope walk.  Over 20 yrs ago, i I drew up plans for a rope walk and had an engineer friend build me one.  I can turn up to five lines.  It uses a sewing machine motor with foot control.  I mounted it up in the rafters of my garage and could rope that was 15ft turned.  Admit that I have gotten lazy in my old age and no longer use it.  Found a great source of turned rigging line here in the U.S. from linen/cotton blend.  Not near as fun as making your own though.  Good job on ya.  Enjoying following along on this build.
Regards,
Dennis
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Brian60

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2014, 07:48:03 AM »

Brian,


Very nice work sir.  The deck detail shot on Albatross does not get any better than that!  Fine job on the rope walk.  Over 20 yrs ago, i I drew up plans for a rope walk and had an engineer friend build me one.  I can turn up to five lines.  It uses a sewing machine motor with foot control.  I mounted it up in the rafters of my garage and could rope that was 15ft turned.  Admit that I have gotten lazy in my old age and no longer use it.  Found a great source of turned rigging line here in the U.S. from linen/cotton blend.  Not near as fun as making your own though.  Good job on ya.  Enjoying following along on this build.
Regards,
Dennis

I have to agree, the detail that Hammer has managed on Albatross is quite amazing. And like you my ropewalk may have to be longer. On the table I can manage 3 to 4 feet when it is wound, so you lose about a 1/3rd of the starting length. In some case this isn't going to be long enough, I hope my telescoping square tubes will be long enough at 9 feet will be a long enough base for future use.

Chris G

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2014, 12:52:32 PM »

Hello Brian
So we are alright for supplies of rope now, will put my order in soon. {-)
Visited a model boat exhibition in Peel I.O.M last year where there was a chap making rope in a similar way to you and very authentic it did look. The model boat exhibition was first class btw some real enthusiasts on the I.O.M.
Your build seems to be progressing well keep the pictures coming please.
Best regards Chris G   
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hammer

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2014, 04:22:53 PM »

Thank you all for your kind remarks Hammer.
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dlancast

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2014, 06:45:52 PM »

It has been my experience that rigging will make or break a good model.  Nothing can compare to hand laid up rope done in the proper fashion.  You will be very happy with the extra effort in making your own line.  A question I have is the fact that the model is a working RC model, does that effect what type of rigging line is used?


Dennis
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Brian60

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2014, 07:32:07 PM »

It has been my experience that rigging will make or break a good model.  Nothing can compare to hand laid up rope done in the proper fashion.  You will be very happy with the extra effort in making your own line.  A question I have is the fact that the model is a working RC model, does that effect what type of rigging line is used?


Dennis

Not too sure on this Dennis, no doubt I will find out once its finished! I think Hammer has ideas on what to use, I did have a pm chat with him months ago on what he used on the Albatross. My thoughts are that if I have wound 3 cords of .25mm into one cord, that finished cord will be 3 times as strong as a single cord of .75mm diameter.

Updates coming shortly, I've done a little work this week but been very busy so its taken a back burner over the last week or two.

hammer

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2014, 08:26:54 PM »

Brian knows I know nothing  :o about rope, string yes.  What I do know it all depends on the material the rope is made of. As for sailing model the standing rigging is not load bearing, as long as it doesn't stretch its fine. The control lines will need to be soft or flexible though.
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mrpenguin

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2014, 08:44:30 PM »

...As for sailing model the standing rigging is not load bearing....

I think you will find the standing rigging on a working model IS actually load bearing otherwise the mast would fall over.

From my experience the standing rigging is under most stress while the boat is being handled, particularly outdoors in gusty conditions
 :-))
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hammer

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2014, 10:32:42 PM »

The masts on my models are all freestanding without support from the rigging. This is possible due to scale effect, simple. It is true handling the model in and out of the car, the rigging won't help when tangling with door, roof, seat etcetera.
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derekwarner

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2014, 10:47:09 PM »

Morning hammer  ok2

I suspect your masts are stepped down through the deck & into the keel plate? ....so 150 to 180 mm of actual tiled support?

1. this would provide a tremendous amount of rigidity for the mast itself  %)
2. long straight grained timber selection for the mast would also help  :-))

Derek
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Brian60

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2014, 09:55:23 AM »

Morning hammer  ok2

I suspect your masts are stepped down through the deck & into the keel plate? ....so 150 to 180 mm of actual tiled support?

1. this would provide a tremendous amount of rigidity for the mast itself  %)
2. long straight grained timber selection for the mast would also help  :-))

Derek

My masts will be similarly stepped through to the keel (think I demonstrated this in the pics) however I am using 4 pieces of quadrant section ramin that will be epoxied together. The reasoning here was that the centre would actually contain  a 2mm diamter piano wire for stiffness and also act as the antenna for the 28mhz set I had. Since I decided on this option my good lady bought me a 2.4ghz set so the antenna is not needed but I am still going with the mast set up.

derekwarner

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2014, 10:31:16 AM »

Fully understood BrianB6.........that your masts would also be stepped down to the keel from your previous image  :-))

I have read of the ancient method of fabricating the mast construction as you note.....

Piano wire has excellent tensile strength and resistance to shear  O0.....however really is a cousin of spring steel & as such will offer little if any stiffness as a mast reinforcement centre core.......Derek
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Derek Warner

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hammer

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2014, 12:15:17 PM »

Quote :I think you will find the standing rigging on a working model IS actually load bearing otherwise the mast would fall over. Mr Penguin are you referring to racing yachts with masts stepped on deck? not a scale work boat. I use elastic through the dead eyes to keep the stays taught so no support at all.  I did tell a lie the mast on my two paddle steamers do need the support of the rigging. Where I use turn buckles, home made with 10BA left thread one end & right the other.  HI DEREK, when are we going to see that wonderful steam plant in a boat?
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mrpenguin

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2014, 10:22:54 PM »

Quote :I think you will find the standing rigging on a working model IS actually load bearing otherwise the mast would fall over.
Mr Penguin are you referring to racing yachts with masts stepped on deck? not a scale work boat....

Aha, we may be at cross purposes here...
While the shrouds on many race boats are load bearing, I was actually thinking more of a square rigger and its many shrouds....

Regarding a scale work - all new territory to me... watching with interest....
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tigertiger

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2014, 02:00:07 AM »

My masts will be similarly stepped through to the keel (think I demonstrated this in the pics) however I am using 4 pieces of quadrant section ramin that will be epoxied together.


If you do this and turn alternative quadrants in the opposite direction (reversing the grain direction), this should help prevent bowing and twisting of the mast.
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hammer

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2014, 09:58:39 PM »

Is the mast hexagonal where it passes through the deck, then round tapering slightly & then square at the hounds???  Mine did so I started with Half the wife's old, wooden broom stick (sorry brush handle ) These have straight grain. Other wise she would have snapped it.
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Brian60

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2014, 12:38:48 PM »

 Well itís been a couple of weeks since my last update, here goes- Iíve been doing a lot of that sitting and pondering as to what should be done next without actually doing anything, its called procrastination! Anyway the reality was I had hit an impasse, I got over it by doing parts that should be done later in the build. I began with the fairleading post shown in p29-p31, a simple little part consisting of a post and a sheave. As you can see it did have the small problem of cutting the angled slot in the post for the sheave to sit in, but in the end was simply accomplished by pencilling the slot on the piece and then chain drilling with a .5mm drill bit. Once done some fine wet and dry opened the slot to the correct size, the sheave is a commercially available item that I bought plenty of to complete the finished boat. This post is situated to the port side and slightly abaft of the main mast, the cleat on the post takes the topsail sheet around it before belaying to a cleat on the aft side of the mast.
 

Brian60

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2014, 12:42:18 PM »

 The post took me about 30 minutes to complete and compared to the next part, the windlass, was a walk around the dock so to speak. The windlass has taken about 30 hours to get to the stage in the photoís, my wife said she always thought I was mad but after seeing me build this she knows for sure!
 
 P32 shows the beginnings of the build, the drawing underneath was downsized in scale from the one shown in Edgar J Marchís book done using photoshopís scaling feature. 

Brian60

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2014, 12:44:14 PM »

P33 and p34 show the first parts coming together, Iíve not seen a windlass like this in the various photoís I have collected from the internet, but it is clearly laid out in his book so as all measurements were there I went with it. The first part of the windlass consists of the bowsprit bitts, the right leg has a sheave on top of the post and a sheave along its leg. The opposite leg has a hole in it, through this will be passed the knotted end of the heel rope for the bowsprit (eventually) the free end comes out the other side, wraps across the end of the bowsprit and passes around the side roller in the other leg.

Brian60

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2014, 12:45:34 PM »

The next pic p35 shows the warping roller in place along with its outer support and p36 shows the knees added to the fore parts of the windlass, along with some fine brass strip to replicate the iron banding

Brian60

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2014, 12:51:12 PM »

 In p37 and p38 you can just make out some more detailing, the wooden pawl in the centre and its engagement cog and the whelps on the warping drum. This is where the madness comes in, apart from cutting all the small parts! I didn't have any 11mm dowelling to make the outer drums with- solution? I had some 30 mm dowel, so I marked off the 11mm on its end then roughly cut it to size on the bandsaw, before attaching to a drill (think lathe :} ) and rotary sanding down to size!  It also has a first coat of base paint. I like to put this on as it shows up defects and where it needs more sanding before a final coat of paint. I will say at this point I am using lime wood for these small parts, itís light and relatively fine grain, but I have still have to do some filling as you can see in the painted pics to hide what grain there is. The whelps on the drum I used some strip mahogany because I had it to hand, but also because the edges of it are brown,  in real life any painted surface here would has soon been worn down to natural timber leaving just the paint in between the whelps with some staining.
 

Brian60

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2014, 12:53:52 PM »

...

Brian60

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Re: Humber smack circa 1880- build log
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2014, 12:59:06 PM »

Apologies for the last pic out of sequence, it would not let me paste the text! So here it is... I have done some work on the hull as well, doing the small parts gets the mojo back and you want to get on with the big parts! In fact Itís quite a lot of work I have done really. In p39 you can see I have installed the batteries and servoís along with the halyards that will operate the tiller arm. The drum servo for the sails is proving my sticking point at the moment, the drum is not sufficiently large enough in diameter to take the actual thickness of sheet that is required for scale appearance. So I am open to suggestions here. I was looking at direct connection to the drum, but to do this will mean using my scale sheet above decks and a certain length below deck, then it would have to be downsized by tying a thinner cord to it so that it passes around the drum.
 
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