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Author Topic: Re: Repairing my TYPE 23 - HMS Norfolk  (Read 7648 times)

John W E

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Re: Repairing my TYPE 23 - HMS Norfolk
« on: February 13, 2014, 12:28:26 pm »

Hi all
 
My saga of the Type 23 HMS Norfolk a good, good while ago.
 
HMS Norfolk used to live on the shelf in the garage here and whilst I was doing some work in the garage with a large sheet of 8 x 4 plywood, trying to turn the plywood around by myself - I clobbered HMS Norfolk - and whiped it completely off the shelf.  The hull was pierced with the plywood and just like buttered toast she landed on superstructure and whoops a diddle - nobody spoke to me for ages grrrrrrrrrrr lot of damage done shall we say.
 
Anyway, the model became a bits and pieces donating boat for everything to go to making other models, motors, speed controllers, couplings ....all went on the other builds.
 
Model eventually went up into the garage loft at so many miles an hour and landed where she stayed for a few years.  Until just recently when trying to create space for my last build, HMS Exeter, my son brough HMS Norfolk down and said what you doing with this dad, do you want to bin it, scrap it.......ah
 
guess what
 
I decided to rebuilt it....and so far I have repaired the hole in the side and replaced all the running gear, new motors from MFA 540s, 2 x refurbished speed controllers (thank you kindly donated by Martin Mayhem  :-))  ) and I also have a homemade mixer in which she never had before.
 
I have already had several fittings from Barry at Sirmar and replacing some of the fittings I snaffled for the type 42 which I built.
 
Couple of pics to follow.
 
 
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warspite

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Re: RIVA'S DON'T BOUNCE NOR DO TYPE 23's
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2014, 06:45:15 pm »

Pity the real navy doesnt recycle old hulls with new more efficient running gear and equipment, lol.
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Capt Podge

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Re: RIVA'S DON'T BOUNCE NOR DO TYPE 23's
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2014, 07:54:49 pm »

Knew you wouldn't be idle for long - nice one matey  :-))
 
Regards,
 
Ray.
 
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110samec

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Re: RIVA'S DON'T BOUNCE NOR DO TYPE 23's
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2014, 11:15:04 pm »

Pity the real navy doesnt recycle old hulls with new more efficient running gear and equipment, lol.

It does :D With the archer class patrol vessels, it swaps the old Rolls Royce engines for new CAT engines and running gear.  Its only been done on 2 I believe so far
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John W E

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Re: RIVA'S DON'T BOUNCE NOR DO TYPE 23's
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2014, 06:58:49 pm »

hi ya all
 
Ray, you know me, never idle hands as far as modelling is concerned (dont mention the DIY).   :embarrassed:
 
After building HMS Exeter, I was a bit tired of grey builds, they seem to lose the zing for me.   To be honest, I had been looking at Neil's build of the ferry and one or two fishing sailing vessels - I havent scratch built a sailing boat before (apart from a couple of life sized ones :-)  ) and I fancy something totally different for my next model build.
 
I have looked at SS Canberra - all the portholes and fits & pieces made me quivver :-)  plus at 1:96 it would be quite a size.
 
I might be looking at something like the old cross channel ferries of the 1960s, or something similar.
 
Maybe a cargo ship.
 
Will see.
 
Anyway, I have started on HMS Norfolk and rebuilding the superstructure and beginning with the missile silo at the bow - also, as a sidenote, I had a good conversation with Barry from Sirmar this afternoon about fittings and he is going to supply me with a lot of the missing fittings to replace the ones from this model.   During the conversation he did mention that he had a close family grievance; which has set him back a bit - his poor dad I believe.   
 
I am going to rebuild superstructure out of plywood from 0.8 and 0.5 ply and here is a pic to let you see that I havent been sitting doing nowt.  :-)
 
Aye
 
John
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warspite

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Re: RIVA'S DON'T BOUNCE NOR DO TYPE 23's
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2014, 07:17:15 pm »

Would the superstructure in ply be heavier and cause stability issues, I thought these vessels at this scale were tempermental (spelling acurate to depict when they go catastrophically wrong)
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John W E

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Re: RIVA'S DON'T BOUNCE NOR DO TYPE 23's
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2014, 09:17:36 am »

Hi ya Warspite


the original superstructure was all built from birch ply of various thicknesses between 1mm and 0.4mm.  She was quite stable as long as I kept the batteries low down in the hull.  As far as I can tell, there is very little different in weight between Plasticard and thin ply at these thicknesses.  To be honest I myself prefer to work with wood rather than Plasticard - I can use Plasticard when I use it to cover wooden structures and so forth - but I do struggle when I come to make structures purely from Plasticard, it never seems to give the same finish as wood.  I know with wood you have to do a lot more finishing prep to hide the grain with using Sandnsealer and other products.




Here's an example of where I have used Plastic tubing to create missile silo domes for the front structure.


aye


John
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John W E

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Re: RIVA'S DON'T BOUNCE NOR DO TYPE 23's
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2014, 02:26:23 pm »

hi ya all
 
still plodding along - I thought I would have been able to salvage some parts of the superstructure especially for the bridge but when I closely examined it, it fell apart virtually in my hands.  Also the glazing on the bridge windows had fallen out and to replace this would have been major surgery.  So, I have opted to build new superstructure completely and make improvements of the old. Because when I originally built this model in approx 1990 information on these vessels was very limited and of course today we have a lot more information on them using the web etc.
 
The only thing I am stuck at AND CAN ANYONE HELP
 
This vessel was sold to the Chilean Navy (HMS NORFOLK) had a few modifications namely a new mark 8 gun fitted but what I would like to know is had she the go faster flap fitted on the stern - for the fuel economy and soforth - would it have been fitted at this refit or did she never have this fitted.
 
aye
 
john
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Shipmate60

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Re: RIVA'S DON'T BOUNCE NOR DO TYPE 23's
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2014, 02:31:43 pm »

John,
Somewhere I have pics of her as she sailed out of Pompey on her way.
I will see if I can dig them out.


Bob
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Re: RIVA'S DON'T BOUNCE NOR DO TYPE 23's
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2014, 06:21:19 pm »

Don't forget the Victorian navy if you want to do warships with a bit more colour. Then there are the razzle dazzle schemes applied to countless vessels in WW1 and 2 so don't suffer the grey unecessarily!
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John W E

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Re: RIVA'S DON'T BOUNCE NOR DO TYPE 23's
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2014, 10:04:57 am »

HI ALL just a quick update,l doing a bit more on the superstructure this time doing the funnel and air intake superstructure and Ive just remembered why I had a lot of problems last time building this part because by hey there are an awful lot of angles in it to get right.  Whilst I was on comparing plans against pics I noticed a couple of modifications on top of the owld funnel stack she has an extra exhaust which looks like a T shaped exhaust.  Also Ive been doing the helicopter hangar as well and Ive noticed there are more modifications on there.   One of the wing decks has been extended on the starboard side - couple of pics....
aye
john
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Re: RIVA'S DON'T BOUNCE NOR DO TYPE 23's
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2014, 08:00:10 pm »

Hi all
 
My saga of the Type 23 HMS Norfolk a good, good while ago.
 

BB
I think we can all agree it's a good job it wasn't a very good model... imagine if it was decent and you'd slaved over for months!!!

Good job you dodged that particular bullet!

  <*<
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cdsc123

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Re: RIVA'S DON'T BOUNCE NOR DO TYPE 23's
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2014, 09:20:47 pm »

hi ya all
 
still plodding along - I thoughtI would have been able to salvage some parts of the superstructure especially for the bridge but when I closely examined it, it fell apart virtually in my hands.  Also the glazing on the bridge windows had fallen out and to replace this would have been major surgery.  So, I have opted to build new superstructure completely and make improvements of the old. Because when I originally built this model in approx 1990 information on these vessels was very limited and of course today we have a lot more information on them using the web etc.
 
The only thing I am stuck at AND CAN ANYONE HELP
 
This vessel was sold to the Chilean Navy (HMS NORFOLK) had a few modifications namely a new mark 8 gun fitted but what I would like to know is had she the go faster flap fitted on the stern - for the fuel economy and soforth - would it have been fitted at this refit or did she never have this fitted.
 
aye
 
john

Hi John

I think the answer must be no, she never had the transom flaps fitted. This paper dated 2007;
 
 
http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14895
 
 
lists HMS Argyll, Kent and Northumberland as the recipients to that date, and HMS Norfolk was sold in 2006.
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Re: Repairing my TYPE 23 - HMS Norfolk
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2014, 10:51:56 pm »

Topic renamed!  :-)
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John W E

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Re: Repairing my TYPE 23 - HMS Norfolk
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2014, 01:21:06 pm »

hi there Christian, good to have a sensible answer  %% I am very grateful to you, I had a good read of that document which was published on the website referred to.  Thank you.   It doesn't half clear up a lot of mysteries with regard to these flaps.  It may be heavy reading but hey what a mine of information it is. 
 
Aye
John
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warspite

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Re: Repairing my TYPE 23 - HMS Norfolk
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2014, 03:15:28 pm »

Just make sure you secure the torpedos unlike HMS Argle  {-)
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Rob47

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Re: Repairing my TYPE 23 - HMS Norfolk
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2014, 04:33:46 pm »

or HMS Argyll  {-) {-)
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Re: Repairing my TYPE 23 - HMS Norfolk
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2014, 09:12:07 pm »

Hi
As I worked on her while she was being re fitted for the Chileans I can confirm she did not get the mod to the hull. She did get far better paint job than the RN colour though!

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John W E

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Re: Repairing my TYPE 23 - HMS Norfolk
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2014, 03:29:00 pm »

hi ya there
 
Thank you very much Jay for that confirmation of the stern flap - now I can rest at ease Captain :-)
 
To get back to the build and shall we say enlighten some of our readers about the age of this model and the style it was made in; I must have been one of the first to receive a set of plans from Jacobin for this particular vessel.   At the time I built my model there werent any commercial hulls available and fittings were few and far between.   Sirmar fittings were around, but when I made my model one used to get a printed off catalogue, with no pics just numbers and I spent many a happy hour on the phone to the original owner of Sirmar trying to locate fittings for the vessel.   The only things at the time that were compatible were the bollards, anchors and fair leads along with a grill set.  Therefore 90% of the fittings were homemade.   So compared with today's standards they may have looked rubbishy.   
 
Now moving the clocks forward to the present day and we have a lot more suppliers of hulls, fittings and information which I intend to use on my model's refit which it is undergoing :-)  Now I am using 3 companies to supply fittings, Sirmar, for the majority of fittings, Scale warship for the brass etchings, Fleetscale stores for some other white metal and resin fittings. 
 
Going back to Sirmar, Barry, who runs Sirmar now, was left with a lot of work to recoup the Company etc. and build it up - and several times on different forums we have heard some negative things against Sirmar due to the length of time/ lack of response from Barry.  But. in the month or so that I have been contacting Barry - he has always answered his phone/rang me back/answered all messages and it is usually after 6pm when he comes home from his day time supporting role.  The fittings I have received are second to none and excellent quality.
 
Fleetscale fittings are of good quality too, very little flash to clean off and little distortion.   
 
Photo etched stuff from Scale Warship - has to be seen to be believed.
 
Thank you all suppliers.
 
Remember if we dont use our good suppliers we will lose them.
 
aye
 
John
 
ps couple of pics of the fittings here
 
 
 
 
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John W E

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Re: Repairing my TYPE 23 - HMS Norfolk
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2014, 03:30:48 pm »

 :-))
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Z750Jay

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Re: Repairing my TYPE 23 - HMS Norfolk
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2014, 09:49:00 am »

Looking good. Now all you need for an authentic 23 is lots of rust!
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John W E

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Re: Repairing my TYPE 23 - HMS Norfolk
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2014, 04:49:45 pm »

hi ya all, just a quick update
 
As you can see I have finished all box work on the superstructures; and now in the process of adding the fittings
 
Started off making a brand new main mast - as the original one is far too badly damaged - so that is all made from 0.04 plywood and plasticard; the rear mast I managed to salvage from the old model; but needed new wing structures making and a new top aerial mast which was made from various diameter plastic tubing with plastic discs cut to size.  The wings (as I like to call them) :-) is made from angled plastistrutt.   I managed to salvage a lot of the water right doors from the old model which I cleaned up and fitted but I used new air vents/air intake fittings from Sirmar as the old ones were home made. 
 
Couple of pics of superstructure and fittings ready to be fitted.
 
aye
 
john
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John W E

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Re: Repairing my TYPE 23 - HMS Norfolk
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2014, 04:52:47 pm »

 ;)
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Z750Jay

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Re: Repairing my TYPE 23 - HMS Norfolk
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2014, 05:14:02 pm »

Looks like a good recovery. Trying to rake the brains back to when I looked after her while we refitted her for the Chilian navy manly for the details around the foremast and 02 deck as there is a lot of variation across the class. The small thin mast being the main mast always confuses the fitters and when we get to the stretched 42's with main, fore and stump masts. We also get a lot of fitters saying "but the drawing says" when something is not fitting. Then you point out that the drawing is for the Iron Duke and they are on the St Alban's and that each was built differently.
Still it's looking good
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Re: Repairing my TYPE 23 - HMS Norfolk
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2014, 07:55:19 pm »

Nice to see you're making progress John - and the model's looking good too {-)
 
PM sent.
 
Regards,
 
Ray.
 
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