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Author Topic: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.  (Read 92560 times)

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #125 on: April 21, 2014, 06:37:45 pm »

Forgot the pics.
Jerry.

ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #126 on: April 22, 2014, 05:15:46 pm »

Yesterday and today spent on pump section. Cleaned up the casting in the three jaw, faced off the ends of the inlet and outlet stubs to length, then after centre drilling, drilled a 1/8" hole in to the middle of the pump. Drilled a hole for 1/4" x 40 tpi thread then finished off to depth with a 3/16" D-bit giving a nice flat bottom to the valve chamber. Tapped the 1/4" x 40 tpi thread  for union. Turned the piece round in the chuck and repeated process. Finally I ran a 1/8" reamer through both pipes giving a sharp edge for the valve seats.
       Next I turned my attention to the pump cylinder. The drawing shows the total height of the pump body from the base but gives no measure to say where the pipes exit. Of course it doesn't actually matter as far as function is concerned but I wanted it to look like in the drawing, so faced off the bottom so the pipes are a little above the base ensuring first there was enough metal on the top to machine to height. This wasn't clever! I should have done the top first! As it was I didn't have  enough for the three jaw to get hold of when it came to facing off the top so had to load it in the four jaw. Next I drilled the top ram hole and reamed to 1/4". Returned  the piece to the three jaw and drilled out the body to size. Shipped the milling attachment with the piece in it and drilled and tapped the top and bottom cover plate securing stud holes. These are of similar pattern and size.
        Next came the top and bottom covers. I thought I could get both out of the one casting and save time by making them more or less together at least until both had been turned down to their major sizes. I then parted off the bottom cover, then drilled the 1/4" hole through the top cover before boring out for the o-ring recess. I parted off the piece only to find that there was not as much metal as appearance suggested and I blew through the 0-ring securing lip. Curses!! So, I had to make the top cover again but out of the cast bar supplied. I cut a piece off and milled it to thickness, then drilled and bored the o-ring retainer, drilled the securing stud holes and finally drilled the 6BA clearance holes for the Tie Bar threads. All that remained was to mill the outline roughly to shape before final shaping on the sanding station. Burny finger time, but it does a lovely job. The same procedure for the bottom cover then both parts dressed up on the plate.
       Made and threaded the tie bars from 3/16" s/steel stock. Married the steam bit to the water bit and called it a day.
Jerry.

 
Jerry,
Just been having another look at your 3" Weir type pump and must congraulste you on your workmanship, well done.
My question is , why have you used steel on the construction of the steam transfer plate and the steam chest cover and the other parts  when Southworth supply a strip of Gunmetal to make these parts, any reason for this.
I made one some time ago and made all the parts with the Gunmetal supplied.
Here is a pic of that pump ( hopefully it will post )
 
George.
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #127 on: April 22, 2014, 07:09:53 pm »

Thanks George. I didn't use steel I used duralumin sheet. I did try to use the stuff supplied but when I came to mill the other side, without me noticing, the part warped in the jaws and was spoiled. I had some dural(HP30) left over from my bike building days. I live quite close to the factory in Dolgarrog where the works manager was very kind and let me have a load of stuff. My TVR uses aluminium valves so I've tried the same.
        Today I drilled the end plates and boiler shell. I used both imperial and metric step drills and the drill press. I supported the end plates with the cut off formers drilling through the plates into the formers which kept the drills clear of the vice. The remaining cylinder of oak I put inside the shell to support it while drilling for the bushes. Drilling was a dream, if you've never used step drills give them a try, they do exactly what they are meant to. Perfect round parallel holes that the return tubes are a good sliding fit in and the same for the bushes. Well pleased.
        That's as far as I can go. The PB for the rest of the bushes is on it's way but still no chance for the remaining fire tube or 10BA brass studding. If anyone has 5 1/2" of 1 1/4" I/D  16SWG copper pipe and 10BA brass or steel studding I could buy I would be eternally grateful.
Jerry.

ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #128 on: April 23, 2014, 12:22:23 am »

Thanks George. I didn't use steel I used duralumin sheet. I did try to use the stuff supplied but when I came to mill the other side, without me noticing, the part warped in the jaws and was spoiled. I had some dural(HP30) left over from my bike building days. I live quite close to the factory in Dolgarrog where the works manager was very kind and let me have a load of stuff. My TVR uses aluminium valves so I've tried the same.
        Today I drilled the end plates and boiler shell. I used both imperial and metric step drills and the drill press. I supported the end plates with the cut off formers drilling through the plates into the formers which kept the drills clear of the vice. The remaining cylinder of oak I put inside the shell to support it while drilling for the bushes. Drilling was a dream, if you've never used step drills give them a try, they do exactly what they are meant to. Perfect round parallel holes that the return tubes are a good sliding fit in and the same for the bushes. Well pleased.
        That's as far as I can go. The PB for the rest of the bushes is on it's way but still no chance for the remaining fire tube or 10BA brass studding. If anyone has 5 1/2" of 1 1/4" I/D  16SWG copper pipe and 10BA brass or steel studding I could buy I would be eternally grateful.
Jerry.

Jerry,
Blackgates engineering list 1.25" o/d copper tube x 16 swg, why not use that ?

E.K.P. Supplies stock 10 b.a. brass studding in 12" lengths.    tel/fax 01598 710892.

George.
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AlexC

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #129 on: April 23, 2014, 02:10:32 pm »

Hi Jerry,
 
Whilst not the cheapest source on the block... 1.375" OD x 16swg is available from stock here: -
 
http://www.ajreeves.com/copper-tube--1-38-x-16-swg-8656-p.asp
 
George has given you a feasible alternative with the 1.25" OD x 16swg and a very good source for the 10BA studding. :-))
 
Hope this helps.
 
Best regards.
 
AlexC. :D
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #130 on: April 23, 2014, 05:31:01 pm »

Thankyou Alex C and George. I phoned Blackgates first thing and the tube is arriving shortly. I ordered the studding from E K P and a safety valve from Maccsteam. I spent the rest of the day on the bushes and extensions for pressure gauge and lower sight glass fitting. I've just got the blanking plugs and steam dome/manifold to do then I can start on the fire and smoke boxes.
Jerry.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #131 on: April 25, 2014, 06:28:26 pm »

Got a bit of a rash on my hands and cutting my fingers to ribbons so off to screwfix store for latex gloves and barrier cream. Get a hundred pairs of gloves for £8, forget all about the barrier cream and on my way out spot a Chinese set of number, letter and imperial drills for £28, so grabbed em and went back to the till. "Do you mind telling me what they are cos nobody here knows?", so I tell her best as I can and shoot off home totally forgetting to call in at Tesco and get the shopping.
Today I made a manifold come screw in steam dome. I'd just finished when in comes the missus with an Anzac biscuit, delicious the best she's ever made. A few minutes later she comes back with a little cooking measure that the spot welds have failed and th'andle fell off. "Can you fix this cos I use it a lot?". " No chance", says I. A little later I think " what about rivets?", I've got 100 1/16" copper rivets cos I needed six to hold the boiler together when I solder it. So gets my one and only 1/16" bit, load it in the dremel and try to drill through the handle. Hard as nails, melts drill bit. Then remember chinese set, give it a go and Perfick, cuts like butter. Riveted one hole then drilled tother and job done. She wouldn't give me another biscuit though.
Jerry.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #132 on: April 28, 2014, 09:43:39 pm »

The fire tube arrived on Saturday but forgot to look in the parcel box and didn't find it until the evening. Sunday morning I took S. L. Wear to the lake for the first steam of the year. All went well and good weather for it too. PM went for a bike ride in training for the Etape Eryri in June so only managed to mark out for the fire tube holes in the end plates. Ring drilled them today. I broke two of my new drills before using parafin as a cutting lubricant and then all went well. I used a Dremel parallel burr tool in the drill press on highest speed and tidied up the edge before using a grit drum to take the hole out to size, fitting the pipe and twisting it in the hole to mark the high spots on the edge and grinding the marks off until I got a good sliding fit. Next I made up rings of silver solder using a spare return tube as a mandrel and the flaring tool and mole grips to hold the coils tight and then warmed up the solder to anneal it and set the coils. I cut the rings off with side cutters. I repeated the process with the hex stock I made the stay nuts out of and ditto with the stays themselves. Finally made rings for the bushes. The solder coils down neatly into the drum for the end plates. I'm trying for a neat soldering job first go so made up some flux applicators out of dowel turned down in the the lathe cos I'm rubbish with a paintbrush so this way the flux and thus the solder will only go where I want it. I'll put a few short straight pieces of solder in pin vices in case I get any gaps. Easier to hold and aim the solder when wearing thick welding gloves. I'm waiting on a set of 5/16" 32tpi taps and die for the safety valve bush and then I can do the soldering job. I must admit I've lost a fair bit of sleep mulling over this job cos I've never done anything like it before. Wish me luck.
Jerry.

southsteyne2

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #133 on: April 29, 2014, 06:07:26 am »

What are you using for pickle ? been trying to get some citric acid but seems very scarce here locally so far, best of luck just keep it clean clean clean and right heat and should be ok ,helps in low light so you can see the colour moroon and your getting close don,try to do too much in one go :-))
John
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #134 on: April 29, 2014, 08:10:47 am »

Hi John, you get citric acid from people that sell all the gear for home brewed beer. Mine is supplied by Young's Ubrew, Bilston, West Mids, WV14 8DL. I got it at  local garden centre that has a brewing section. £1.19 per 100 grams. I put all my bits in the dishwasher and now they're in the pickle bath at the moment. I won't touch anything without clean gloves on.
Jerry.

southsteyne2

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #135 on: April 29, 2014, 09:56:44 am »

Hi Jerry are you using this neat or watered down if so what %  also works out at about $20 per litre our money
John
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kiwimodeller

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #136 on: April 29, 2014, 10:12:20 am »

John, here in New Zealand I can buy Citric Acid in the supermarket in the cooking ingrediants section. It is in powder form and is very cheap. I dissolve it in warm water and have experimented with very strong mixtures and quite weak ones. It does not seem to make much difference except that very weak does not do as good a job so now I just put a couple of spoon fulls in a 1 litre container and almost fill it with the warm water. I use it more than once before eventually throwing it out. Main thing seems to be that the parts are still good and hot when dropped in the acid and you should wear goggles and gloves. Hope this helps. Cheers, Ian.
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #137 on: April 29, 2014, 11:50:25 am »

That said, I've just been to the store (Stermat) and they've run out. "Oh, we've changed our supplier and so we're running our stocks down". Yes, it's in powder form and I've no idea of the mixture but it seems to work whatever I do. It stops working when it turns green. I had the bits overnight in green stuff and it didn't clean, hence trip to store. As Ian says, a decent supermarket will also stock it for cooking purposes. I'll let you know.
Jerry.

grendel

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #138 on: April 29, 2014, 01:00:16 pm »

I use citric acid in powder form for bread making, health shops or Asian shops - at a pinch you can use vitamin c tablets and crush them (citric acid powder = vitamin c powder). failing that fresh lemon juice would do the job too.
Grendel
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wrongtimeben

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #139 on: April 29, 2014, 05:15:44 pm »

If your losing sleep, your not training hard enough! :}


Plus, we all know it's going to be a super job, so get on with it!


Looking forward to the pics


All the best


Ben
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AlexC

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #140 on: April 29, 2014, 05:45:03 pm »

Hi Guy's
 
Citric acid powder/granules is easily obtained from 'Amazon'
 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=citric+acid+powder&tag=mh0a9-21&index=aps&hvadid=2978661215&ref=pd_sl_4ilnx3ofwh_ee
 
It should be mixed with luke warm clean water until no more will dissolve... Saturated mix.
 
Copper joint areas should be mechanically cleaned to remove surface oxide layer before placing in the pickle.

Hope this helps.
 
Best regards.
 
AlexC. :-))
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Stavros

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #141 on: April 29, 2014, 09:07:50 pm »

Jerry have you tried Cnfn/Bangor and Gaerwen Stermats as I would find it strange that all 3 have run out and there is also one in Colwyn Bay
 
Dave
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #142 on: April 29, 2014, 11:00:08 pm »

Hi Stav, girl in Treborth says they are the only ones doing the brewing gear, I know Caernarfon haven't got it. So I ordered a kilo off tinterweb for £6 inc postage. One kilo of white powder through the post. That'll get the scuffers going.
Jerry.

Stavros

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #143 on: April 29, 2014, 11:13:02 pm »

Girl in Treborth is telling Porky pies LOL Gwen defo got brewing gear.........but you sorted anyway
 
Dave
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ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #144 on: April 30, 2014, 08:39:25 pm »

Hi Jerry,
Message to follow
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ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #145 on: April 30, 2014, 11:33:07 pm »

Hi Jerry,
On your post No 132 you sounded a bit apprehensive on the brazing up of your boiler so I thought that I would give some suggestions on setting it up for brazing.
I had to post the pics first as I have to send them from my Mac to a lap top and then post the pics from there and then do the write up on the Mac so here I am

In pic No 1 can I suggest that you counter sink the holes in the end plate as it lets the solder flow that little bit deeper

Pic No2 is of a vertical boiler that I made and have always found that it's better to have everything set up before brazing.
If you fix the ends in with copper rivets to hold them in place and then put the return tubes in and spread the ends , I use a piece of 1/4" dia brass rod rounded at the end, inserted into the 5/16" tubes and spread the ends that is sufficient to hold every thing in place.

Pic No 3. I wrap the boiler shell with ceramic wool and do one end at a time, placing the boiler in the pickle bath after each procedure.
My brazing box is like a large shoe box with one long side removed, I had to stand the box upright with one end acting like a hood to keep the heat in, you can just see the top of the box in the pic.
My first try with a boiler to the same design as yours with the end sticking up above the box edge was a failure as so much heat was lost to atmosphere but when I turned the box upright with the end like a hood it was much easier and the solder flowed.

Don't know what type of burner you have but mine is a 1" dia Bullfinch with a .030" dia hole in the jet working off of a 4.5 kg bottle of Butane.

Don't lose too much sleep, you are doing a good job, hope this is of help.

George. 
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #146 on: May 01, 2014, 06:20:19 pm »

Great post George, thankyou. Having a small hiatus at the moment. My mother fell over during a hospital visit and fractured her arm. She was going on a cruise to the Faeroe Islands on Saturday taking my missus as her helper and has had to cancel. I was going to drive them to Hull to join the vessel. It would have been quite a reversal me seeing her off on a ship she's done it for me countless times! 
      Back to the boiler. If I build it up with flux and solder rings then solder one end then pickle, what happens to the flux on the in unsoldered end. Do I have to do it again and if so how do I get the flux back into the joints prior to second soldering?
       I've been reading through the bogstandard engine build PDF file and noticed a lot of wasted space in the cylinder block between the bores. Is it feasible to put a displacement oiler in this space and would it work? I seem to recollect a Bayliss engine with this arrangement. Would there be too much heat to allow condensation to take place? Any one tried this?
Jerry.

ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #147 on: May 01, 2014, 10:05:47 pm »

Great post George, thankyou. Having a small hiatus at the moment. My mother fell over during a hospital visit and fractured her arm. She was going on a cruise to the Faeroe Islands on Saturday taking my missus as her helper and has had to cancel. I was going to drive them to Hull to join the vessel. It would have been quite a reversal me seeing her off on a ship she's done it for me countless times! 
      Back to the boiler. If I build it up with flux and solder rings then solder one end then pickle, what happens to the flux on the in unsoldered end. Do I have to do it again and if so how do I get the flux back into the joints prior to second soldering?
       I've been reading through the bogstandard engine build PDF file and noticed a lot of wasted space in the cylinder block between the bores. Is it feasible to put a displacement oiler in this space and would it work? I seem to recollect a Bayliss engine with this arrangement. Would there be too much heat to allow condensation to take place? Any one tried this?
Jerry.


Hi Jerry,
If you lag the boiler sufficiently and keep the heat as far as possible from the unbrazed end the flux will melt to an extent and protect the already prepared end but it will turn quite black and full of bubbles.


Turn it over when cool and braze the other end,when the boiler turns red all the flux will turn to a watery like fluid and if you have the rings in they will all melt into the joints.
You may be able to hit the take of and the safety valve boss at this time when the boiler still has all that heat in it.


I have also brazed one end, let it cool leave over night in pickle bath which cleans all the joints for brazing, insulate it all up again and braze the other end but then I don't use solder rings .I use the rods fed into the joints, it's my opinion that too much solder is used when rings are made, so feeding in the rods is my preference..


Regarding your query on the engine lubricator I can't comment as I have never tried this method which I have my doubts as to whether the lubricator will be cool enough to condense the steam in the lubricator barrel.


Hopefully I have been successful in sending a pic of the vertical boiler that I built showing how black it becomes when brazing.


George.


 
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ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #148 on: May 01, 2014, 10:28:38 pm »

Hi Jerry.
Here is a pic of my finished Scotch boiler, the smoke box and fire box have still to be made.


This one was brazed, then turned over when cool and the other end brazed.
George
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SailorGreg

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #149 on: May 02, 2014, 01:49:43 pm »

Good to see you've cracked the picture posting George - now we can all enjoy your great work to the full   :-))

Good luck with the boiler Jerry - fortune favours the brave.  Fire up the torch!  (Of course, I speak as someone who thinks getting a nipple soldered onto a pipe is something of an achievement   :embarrassed:)

Greg
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