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[Jerry C]

Hi John, the spring is a small, conical coil. It sits between the top body and the widest diameter of the spindle, widest part to the inside of the top, narrowest part to the spindle. It is co-axial to the spindle and it forces the spindle  onto the valve keeping it lightly pressed onto the face. When steam enters the top chamber the pressure forces the valve against the face. The cam shaped valve covers the small steam holes. When the spindle is rotated by hand or servo, via the lever I've yet to make it rotates the valve via the slot thus progressively uncovering the holes from small to large. There will be a small peg in the face to limit rotation to 90°. I didn't do a drawing cos I'm copying a complete regulator. If that's still not clear let me know and I'll sketch it for you. Thanks for watching,
Jerry.

[southsteyne2]

Got the picture thanks Jerry I have the parts made excluding the spindle so now I can proceed   
Thanks
John

[AlexC]

Hi Jerry,
 
Excellent work on your new regulator.
 
Why did you need to copy an original, are they not made any more?
 
Who supplied the S.L Wear regulator?
 
Best regards.
 
AlexC.

[Jerry C]

Hi Alex, can't remember where I got the original. I'm only making a new one cos 1) I want to modify/improve? the type and 2) for satisfaction. If time was money I wouldn't save a penny but I've got plenty of time(God willing)! The original's steam delivery was "all or nothing". I hope this one will have more control. I may square it off later. I particularly liked Derek Decoy's in Oz.
      Anybody know where I can get the spring from?
Jerry.

[derekwarner]

Jerry......this is a really vexing question.......spring steel by nature is martensitic so will rust.....the light compression springs from Biro style retractable pens are manufactured from either black phosphated or galvanised wire ....possibly the steam oil carry over would inhibit this rust

Printer cartridges have myriads of smallish austenitic springs with legs....but they are designed to provide longitudinal tension........

The only miniature rust free compression springs I have been involved with were wound from an aluminium bronze wire.........which has mechanical properties similar to spring steel

I trailed my ACS steam regulator a number of years back & it provided very smooth near totally linear steam volume from zero to max......  ............

The only problem I have is one night shift....the 1:20 scale Irish laggers put the top face wooden lagging on the regulator atwart ships instead of fwd & aft.........

Happy St Patricks day to all ...........Derek

[Jerry C]

Thanks Derek, the one in my bought regulator is rust free after two seasons but I've no idea what it's made of. Even if I could remember where I got it from they probably wouldn't be over the moon about me making my own. I'll have to start taking things apart until I find one. Though now I think about it maybe a piece of silicone tube a bit longer than the spindle would be enough to keep the disc on the face until the steam pressure takes over. I'll give that a try.
The next thing on the agenda is a petrol/gasoline blow lamp for a burner. I got one today for £3 at a car boot sale. I'll have to make a new fuel reservoir to take the wick but have no idea what the pressure in the reservoir is if any. I notice the original has a relief valve in the filler cap. I'll repair/restore this one and make a new filler cap to take a pressure gauge and suck it and see. Ideally I would like a low, flat bow shaped tank in order to get the burner nozzle as low down in the hull as possible. If pressure turns out to be high I'll need a long horizontal cylindrical tank.
Jerry.

[frazer heslop]

Not sure what size springs you are looking for .The likes of Blackgates sell them by the length
Its not difficult to make youre own and M-Machine sell the wire
Dean W has a good write up on making springs and Marv has a good little prog on his site that calcs the former dia
http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html
cheers

[Jerry C]

Thanks Frazer, that looks the way to go and looks simple enough. Watch this space.
Jerry.

[AlexC]

Hi Jerry,
 
The spring in Dereks regulator is made from 24swg Phosphor bronze spring wire.
The spindle is retained by the centre bearing in the top half of the body, so needs no spring.
The spring is fitted between top of the recess in the top body and the valve plate, and only serves to keep the valve plate against the the valve face when no steam, or very low steam pressure, is present... thereafter the steam pressure keeps it in place.
This was done so that the regulator could be mounted vertically, or even upside down.
 
The spring was 1/4" ID and approx 1" long with around 8 - 10 turns... depending on version/size.
 
The single steam port in the valve face was equal in size to the bore of the steam pipe (size dependant) and the cam profile was very carefully designed to provide almost linear steam progression over the 90 deg range of movement.
 
The regulator should be fitted after the lubricator to ensure the moving parts get sufficient lubrication.
 
How do I know all this... well I designed it back in 2003/4 and manufactured it until I closed ACS Engineering.
 
Others have copied it since  , but it would seem they got the cam profile wrong  ... and, by the sound of it, the spindle retention method as well.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Best regards.
 
AlexC. 

[derekwarner]

Just thinking Jerry.... 20 years ago.... domestic steam irons used a non rusting compression spring of about 20 mm long x 6 mm OD and a wire size close to 24# in the steam dome which was depressed to spray steamy water on the item being ironed

Not sure how Mrs C....would take to you opening her pride & joy of irons 

I stand corrected Sandy ......my previous spring manufacturing experience was with phosphor bronze wire & not aluminium bronze ........... Derek

[Jerry C]

Hi again Alex, all noted. I didn't make provision to retain the spindle by the top bush but I hope it will be OK. If I pull the spindle upwards the spring bottoms out before the spindle dislocates from the valve plate. Thanks for the info though.
Jerry.

[southsteyne2]

Hi Guys just browsing around and found this interesting design that works in real size http://schubert-salzer.co.uk/index.php?id=119 might be worth a go

Cheers
John

[grendel]

I remember buying a box of assorted springs from a local fixings supplier, they were bright steel - so probably galvanised or plated.
Grendel

[Jerry C]

I've started building up a bit of stock and offcuts so I been a'tidyin' an a'rearangin' of the workshop. I've got metal working type stuff I never had before and it all needs a place to sit naturally and logically. I bought a set of imperial step drills the other day and I put them somewhere that made sense at the time but when I come to look for them I couldn't remember where. Turns out I'd put them in the imperial jobber drill box.
     I had a go at the petrol/gasoline, (for them across the pond), blowlamp. Stripped it down, cleaned it, replaced all seals and washers, put in a new wick, filled it and flashed it up. Not a flicker! No fuel getting past the needle to the jet. Removed bottom plug and wick and did a bit of probing up the top of the wick tube where I think there should be a passage into the metering chamber to the jet. No joy there but on top of the metering block is a stub with a threaded but blind hole with a screw in it doing apparently nothing so I ran a drill through into the wick tube then plugged the stub. So now we can get fuel to the jet. Lit it up again and when hot opened the valve and got a medium sized yellow smoky flame but no roar or anything blue. The jet is far too big. Its a "illigitimate" thread size so can't make a new one, so made up a small pin punch and peened/caulked the hole closed then put the smallest drill my chuck will grip (0.3mm) through and gave it another go. A modicum of success, a good blue flame, a nice roar but stopped after a minute. Jet blocked, but also a fuel leak underneath near the wick plug. Repaired soft soldered bottom of reservoir but still seems to have a leak but can't fix it's source. Still we're on the right track.
      At a bit of a loose end so decided to mark up the boiler end plates. I gave the 3mm/10swg copper plate a good scrub in detergent, then used a magic marker on half of it, before marking all the centres for pipes, bushes and stays. I bought one of those automatic centre pops. It's ok but you don't half have to give a crack with the hammer to get it to click! (tic)
      Problem, all the holes to be drilled are normally imperial but cos I've only got 8mm pipe for the fire tubes and it's not close enough to 5/16" I'm going to have to buy a metric step drill set as well. Bonaparte has got a lot to answer for!! I can't do much more without the rest of the pipe. The big holes for the main fire tube I'm going to have to do the hard way by drilling lots of holes all the way round then filling to the line. At £48 a plate I daren't risk a hole saw. Mine are too wobbly.
Jerry.   

[ooyah/2]

Jerry,
Don't mark off and drill before you have formed the end plates as you then have a job to line things up if the holes are bored.

I don't see any need to buy step drills, as you have 8 mm copper pipe ( .314" dia ) all that is required is to bore the holes 5/16" dia ( .312" ) at slow speed, then open out with a round file.

As you have already marked everything out, cut the 10 swg plate and when forming put the markings to the inside and then mark off after plates are formed, you will find this the easiest option.

Regarding your auto center punch , any that I have used are only for popping the marks and should never need to be hit with a hammer, after marking with the auto punch you then increase the pop mark with a standard center punch and hammer.

George.

[Jerry C]

Hi George, all received. Was planning  to to drill 1/16" centre hole to line up the plate with the centre of the former, then clamp the plate securely to the former before forming, trimming and skimming to size. Can't do the latter in my lathe but I know a man who can. From your experience will this work? Ref the centre punch, tic = tongue in cheek.
Jerry.

[ooyah/2]

Hi George, all received. Was planning  to to drill 1/16" centre hole to line up the plate with the centre of the former, then clamp the plate securely to the former before forming, trimming and skimming to size. Can't do the latter in my lathe but I know a man who can. From your experience will this work? Ref the centre punch, tic = tongue in cheek.
Jerry.

Jerry,
Do not drill any holes before the end plates are formed as you will never keep the plates central to a drill mark.
Waite until your friend has the end plates on the lathe for skimming and and when skimmed  at this point a center can be drilled using a small center drill but not thro' this will give a center for your dividers to scribe all your holes.

George.

[frazer heslop]

Keep an eye open in Aldi as they often have metric step drill sets for much cheapness and they are good.
I find the step drills make a neater hole in copper.
Dont scrub the copper get some citric acid it saves the hard work of cleaning up .
Back to the wee guy cycling
Good luck

[ooyah/2]

Keep an eye open in Aldi as they often have metric step drill sets for much cheapness and they are good.
I find the step drills make a neater hole in copper.
Dont scrub the copper get some citric acid it saves the hard work of cleaning up .
Back to the wee guy cycling
Good luck

Frazer,
You should be out earning the penny's not playing with wee men cycling .

George.

[Jerry C]

I'm missing something here. Do I make an oak cylinder the same shape as the required inside of the finished end plate? Then bash a piece of copper plate over the end till it takes up the shape of the former. Is it a square plate or a round plate? What diameter should it be? How do I keep the plate centred? I'm beginning to think I've got totally the wrong idea about this procedure.
Jerry.

[frazer heslop]

Hi , George I was out earning pennies whilst you were snoring
Measure the Internal dia of youre tube deduct twice the thickness of the flange plate material.Turn the former to that dimension.
Rough cut a disc to the boiler dia plus the flange thickness and a bit for luck
Anneal the plate and start gently tapping the copper over when it starts to become stiff re anneal and restart tapping it over the former repeat until you have formed the plate.
Dont drill any holes or mark out until you are very happy with the flanged plates
I reconise those drawings
Im sure George will elaborate further
Good luck and welcome to the dark art of copper bashing

[ooyah/2]

Hi , George I was out earning pennies whilst you were snoring
Measure the Internal dia of youre tube deduct twice the thickness of the flange plate material.Turn the former to that dimension.
Rough cut a disc to the boiler dia plus the flange thickness and a bit for luck
Anneal the plate and start gently tapping the copper over when it starts to become stiff re anneal and restart tapping it over the former repeat until you have formed the plate.
Dont drill any holes or mark out until you are very happy with the flanged plates
I recognise those drawings
Im sure George will elaborate further
Good luck and welcome to the dark art of copper bashing

As Frazer has described,
Cut your former from oak or any other hard material, turn it to the inside dia of your tube less 2 x thickness of end plate + 1/16" which will allow you to have some meat on the copper end plate for machining to size.
One edge of the former to have approx 3/8" radius to allow the copper to bend.
Make another former the same and sandwich the plate between them and bend over with hammer annealing as required.

Mark off the dia on your plate , inside dia of tube less 2 x thickness of plate, mark another circle to give you 1/2" overlap
then cut out the plates as discs, I use a jig saw with a fine metal blade and clamp the plate down on my workmate.
All that is required is for you to center the plate by eye and go round bending the plate on the former with the radiused edge.
It's a very easy method, I have just made 2- off end plates today in about 1 hr, the secret is to keep heating the copper to above cherry red, plunge in cold water and start bending.

I love it ,it gets rid of a lot of aggression knocking lumps out of the copper.

I would post you some pics but I can't post them since the change over.
Best of luck.

George.

[Jerry C]

Thankyou Frazer and George. I'll give it a go when the pipes arrive and I can confirm the final size.
Jerry.

[Jerry C]

Because of the recent outage of the forum, I have been unable to get anything done, but now it's returned, the shakes have died down so I made a start on the fire tubes. I got a coil of 8mm 20g tube which was coiled by a one armed Orangutang I believe. Straightened it out and cut 19 pieces 5 1/8 long with a pipe cutter. As they were not perfectly straight I annealed them and rolled them straight with a heavy steel plate on a marking out plate. The pipe cutter squashes the ends in a bit and the cut also has a taper to it. This was why I cut them oversize so I could grind the ends to 5" on the sanding station. I rigged up a positioning jig on the table from some scrap. After sizing the ends need de-burring and, as I don't own a proper tool, I started off with a countersink bit in the power drill and trimmed out the insides and finished off with a half round rat tail file. this was a bit laborious  but then I remembered I'd got a Dremel for crimbo and finished the rest with that. After de-burring I ran a length of 6mm threaded bar through the tubes to clear any coils of copper trapped inside. They're having a quick soak in citric acid.
    I decided that for this steam plant I would upgrade to a steam driven Weir type feed pump so I've ordered the castings and plans from Blackgates and this will keep me occupied until the main boiler tubes arrive.
Jerry.

[wrongtimeben]

You should have seen the tube before I recoiled it! Like the plate method for straightening.


Ben