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Author Topic: An Observation  (Read 4523 times)

wrongtimeben

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2014, 04:31:05 PM »

i often feel that i have a natural desire to make, fix, devise all sorts of things.  maybe it was role modelled, maybe theres something in way god made me but i hope my son has it too.  im not too worried about hobbies like this dying out. modifying maybe but not dying out. those of you doing it regularly will be inspiring many who see you.

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Bob K

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2014, 08:10:06 PM »

My first two years back into modelling was as expensive as taking up golf.  Building a workshop, re-equipping it with all the tools adhesives and paints thrown out decades ago.  I am only just starting to build up a "stock" of materials, and do not yet have drawers full of spare props / shafts / RX's and other electronics from former builds.
 
Scratch building is not as easy or cheap as simply using bits you find around the home, unless you've been building boats for many a year and have a stock room like a model shop.   Sorry.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2014, 08:27:22 PM »

Very good point Bob, my 'bits box' goes back over 40 years!

Colin
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html

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2014, 08:46:58 PM »

RAAArtyGunner with all due respect that is not really what we are talking about, we are talking about a hobby where if you get a problem you work around it or solve it. I would think most youngsters idea of solving a problem is what game to play tonight, or what app to download

Brian
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Bryan Young

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2014, 03:00:46 PM »

Too true html.
I can't imagine kit builders lying awake at night pondering some presently insoluble problem! But again, that's only one of the things that keep scratch builders brains alive.
It's always amazed me how easily a problem sort of solves itself after a long cogitation! Then the actual building seems to take care of itself (sometimes). BY.
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Notes from a simple seaman

inertia

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2014, 03:35:40 PM »

I can't imagine kit builders lying awake at night pondering some presently insoluble problem!
It depends more on which kits you have in mind - I've seen some absolute shockers - but why is it that you always seem to refer to those who build from kits with such undisguised contempt? It says more about you than it does about anyone else.
There may ultimately be no room in your own timetable for them, Bryan, but I sincerely hope that they are made welcome at your club or the club (and maybe the hobby) will surely disappear.
Well - are they?
DM
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Bryan Young

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2014, 04:11:12 PM »

It depends more on which kits you have in mind - I've seen some absolute shockers - but why is it that you always seem to refer to those who build from kits with such undisguised contempt? It says more about you than it does about anyone else.
There may ultimately be no room in your own timetable for them, Bryan, but I sincerely hope that they are made welcome at your club or the club (and maybe the hobby) will surely disappear.
Well - are they?
DM
Well now, "Inertia".
What gives with this "always seem" business? Nothing I said can be construed as derogatory.....much less your use of the word "contempt".
You don't know me, so how can you judge and use such language?
For many years now I've encouraged and helped fellow club members with their problems...be they "kit" or "scratch". I also make no apologies for attempting to persuade people to build their own choice of model, rather than buy whatever is on offer. With some success. Building a hull is probably the main obstacle for many of those who have contemplated the "switch"......but many hulls are available that can be converted into something else.
No problem there.
I'd also agree with you that some kits are monumentally difficult.....and some are simply rubbish.
But the final result should at least bear some resemblance to the original, surely.
Many of the "semi-kit" models we have on our lake have been built to very high standards....built by those who quite often decide to climb upwards and actually spend some time reseaching the prototype. Others, of course, do not.
Any form of modelling, be it railways, dolls houses, aircraft and so on places an onus (or should) on the builder to "get it right". Not rivet counting. Not everyone wants, can or needs a "museum quality" model.
The essence of building any model is surely to build it to the best of ones ability with the tools one has available and a modicum of realisation of what they are attempting to achieve.
My misgivings all centre around those who only want to put something together quickly just so it can be "on the water". I can understand the desire.....but I can't understand the Who gives a hoot" attitude shown by some so-called modellers.
What camp are you in?
BY.
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sparkey

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2014, 04:27:19 PM »

 :-)) Does it really matter I  have built from kit and scratch built,I have got enjoyment from both over the years, my boats might not be the best built and are not perfect but they are my pride and joy,I have said on this forum before about the guy who pulled this young lads model to bits at the lake side OK it was not the best built boat but it was his first attempt at making a model and we all have to start somewhere,we never saw that young man again shame, encouragement was all he needed and he would have been there week after week with his models,so come on guys encourage them and get the young interested in our hobby we can all make a difference, get them down the lake and let them have a sail and we will have em hooked,happy sailing,Ray. :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))         
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warspite

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2014, 05:30:57 PM »

I agree, those that MODEL fall into a multitude of catagories, from those that have the skills and patience and produce museum quality, those that build semi kits and build to either museum quality of as intended, then there's those that buy the bits and build to the previous and there are those that buy a ready to run and do some cosmetic work that brings it up to what they are happy with, and then there is MEEEEEE, crap at everything, but love the challenge to convert what is not designed to be a working item - you have seen the choppers lately - right?  :D.

I live in awe at those that are what you might call shipwrights - whose abilities produce the most exquistite vessels and detail to die for, then there is some that you look at and think - best viewed from afar, there not pretty and only represent what the vessel is - but the owner loves it and that should never be taken away from them, I've tried my hardest to get my two interested and failed, they have no interest, but I hope they look to the past when they get older that if I could get something that looked half decent, then maybe they may be able to as well.
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inertia

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2014, 05:44:24 PM »

Well now, "Inertia".
What camp are you in?
BY.
We had this dispute some years ago on this very forum and we have met briefly - although you won't remember the occasion. Since then you've moderated your tone a little but it was apparent from what you wrote that you regard folk who build from kits as dull or lazy.

"I can't imagine kit builders lying awake at night pondering some presently insoluble problem!"

It's difficult to read this without hearing an emphasis on "kit builders" which borders on derogatory. I'm pleased that you subsequently took the opportunity to clarify your position and I hope that your willingness to share your knowledge and encourage all club members helps your club thrive.

'Camp'? A difficult one, that. I have scratch-built my own scale models; I have built from others' plans; I have had plans published for my own designs; I have designed kits for model boats (and model aircraft) and I have built from others' kits. I've worked in the model trade in manufacture and retail and I've run my own model electronics business. If you want to put me into a 'camp' then take your pick but, like Sparkey and Warspite, I don't think it really matters. Aren't we all just boat modellers?

Dave Milbourn
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Colin Bishop

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2014, 06:01:56 PM »

Perhaps Bryan didn't express himself quite the way he intended to but I do take his point that if you are building a kit which by definition means generally following predetermined instructions from the manufacturer then you are not in the position of a scratchbuilder who needs to think creatively in mentally visualising how a particular issue or construction sequence is to be resolved in order to get the required result as there is no specific guidance to draw upon, only experience plus a bit of imagination.

I have certainly lain awake in bed wrestling with the best means of finding a solution to a particular construction problem, often successfully. But I have found a drawback in that, having visualised in your mind exactly what needs to be done, it then becomes rather a tedious chore to actually do it!

I like to think of myself as a scratchbuilder but in truth, all my recent models have been kits which isn't to say that some of them have not needed some thinking outside the box to get things the way they ought to be.

Working out tricky model boating construction problems sure beats counting sheep as a cure for insomnia though!

Colin
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warspite

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2014, 06:15:27 PM »

I like boats and kits and what people do to them - sad eh!  :P

Lack of funds means I don't spend on the traditional kits, several hundred pounds, wasted due to my lack of - lets say - experience, is what puts me off. So I resort to the convert method to have that - 'ooo didn't know you could do that to that'.  :o

Ideally, buying an already built, exhibition quality warship would be my preferred option, again funds are the problem.  <:(

still have several vessels to build and are in the loft, sorry workshop, that need to be built, one of which is a vacu formed tug hull, again time and funds are stopping me from completing this, so as to the start of the thread - I agree as post 2 - life gets in the way - definitely agree with that.  %)
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sparkey

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2014, 07:07:06 PM »

 :} One thing this thread shows is that we are all different and have different idea's,there is no right or wrong, we are all there to get enjoyment from our hobby,I know a nice chap who goes to the lake with a wonderful model of a paddle steamer which never goes into the water,he sets up his table and chair puts boat on table then he eats his sandwiches and drinks his coffee,that's the way he spends his time at the lake chatting to the other boaters and sitting there, if it were me I could not wait to get that model on the water so we all do things different from one another,I myself build from kits these days as I am getting on a bit and want to get as much modelling and sailing in while I am still able to enjoy it so it is not only life getting in the way age does as well,Ray. O0 O0 
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craig dickson

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2014, 07:52:40 PM »

An Observation


Whilst taking advantage of a window in the weather today I could not help notice a larger than usual number of young children fascinated by our R.C. boats at the lake.  Viewed as objects of wonder.

So, if there is such interest by those with reins and wellie boots why does it often take six decades for their fascination to blossom into going out and building one?

Maybe "I was so much older then. Iím younger than that now."

Excellent thought provoking topic and replies :-))

I am currently 49 years young. My first build of a model boat happened about 40 years ago when my dear dad bought me a simple electric powered balsa kit. Importantly he throughout my early years spent many hours teaching me about these things providing encouragement at all times. My fascination with making things started then (thanks to his support and encouragement) and has continued ever since.

These days it seems to me that families with young children seem to spend far too little quality time with them. Financial pressures with both parents having to work and reply upon third party child care perhaps has a hidden price to pay.

Perhaps the above might explain why in some cases it now takes many years before that fascination blossoms into a first build project.

Craig ;D

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Stavros

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2014, 09:20:02 PM »

Right it's npw mY 2 pennies worth
 
 
Everyone just think along these lines and lets beg not to DISSAGRE over it
 
 
ALL THEY ARE IS TOY BOATS
 
Oh sugar where did I put my hard hat ..............running now mopst definatly for COVER  :} O0 {-) {-) {-)
 
 
Dave
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Colin Bishop

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2014, 09:27:21 PM »

Quote
ALL THEY ARE IS TOY BOATS

WHAT! You mean they are not lovingly crafted, authentic scale replicas?  :o :o :o

And my life's work has been wasted?

I shall not sleep tonight Dave, thinking about all those lost years - and it's all your fault!  >:-o

Colin
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sparkey

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2014, 09:28:42 PM »

 :} Don't worry Dave I have got an old tin hat from WW11 to help you take the flack, its got a few dents I use it when I have spent too much time in the shed just in case SWMBO starts to throws things,happy modelling,Ray {-) {-) 
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Bryan Young

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2014, 09:30:57 PM »

When much younger, did you ever "play" with such things as "proper" Meccano? The metal ones..not the plastic stuff. Perhaps some of you might even recall the old "Brickplayer" offering. (Little real bricks that were "cemented" together with a flour and water paste). Both of these so-called "toys" bred into kids of my generation the will to create a model of "something" that was unique to you, the builder. Even though the results may well have been absolute garbage, it didn't stop us kids trying to build something better than the one you'd seen built by a schoolyard "enemy". And so a child progresses.
   Tastes and so on change. I guess we all had a go at building a Keil Craft aeroplane of one sort or another. Usually they crashed...but no tears ensued. Par for the course. Save up more pocket money and start again. It taught us the meaning of "fortitude". A determination to persevere and get it right "next time". No instant gratification.
   Many of you will disagree with me, I'm sure. But that's basically a generational thing.
As kids we learned an awful lot from our "elders", listened and learned...and developed. No notion of poo-pooing what had gone before. we built on it. Try it sometime. Us old fogeys may yet teach you youngsters a thing or two...if you will only listen. BY.
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Stavros

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2014, 09:32:11 PM »

I shall not sleep tonight Dave, thinking about all those lost years - and it's all your fault!  >:-o
 
 
HA HA HA HA HA Ill be thinking of you NOT Colin  {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
 
 
Dave
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2014, 09:43:30 PM »


They don't cost toy money.   {:-{
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sparkey

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2014, 09:46:37 PM »

 :-)) I had that brickplayer thingy as I recall you laid the bricks like real ones,it had white plastic doors and windows but can't remember what the roofs were (I think card) when the model was finished you just soaked the bricks and they fell apart ready to make a new house,great fun,the Meccano was very expensive and I used to save my pocket money to get extra bits,the brass gears were my favourite,ended up making a four speed gear box all this driven by a Mamod steam plant,great toys great days,Ray. {-) {-) {-) 
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Neil

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2014, 09:59:46 PM »

ALL THEY ARE IS TOY BOATS
 

I'm crying into my beer here <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Neil

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2014, 10:02:47 PM »

When much younger, did you ever "play" with such things as "proper" Meccano? The metal ones..

nope......sorry............. I hated the stuff...........absolutely 100% hatred for it.......that's why my granddad helped me with my first boat at 8 years old.........never looked back, and never ever wanted a meccano set
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Colin Bishop

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2014, 10:08:43 PM »

Quote
HA HA HA HA HA Ill be thinking of you NOT Colin  {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)

It's worse than that Dave, you have totally ruined my plans for retirement. All I have to look forward to now is more toys and not the miniaturised masterpieces I had promised myself.  {:-{

Colin
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grendel

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Re: An Observation
« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2014, 01:39:57 PM »

When much younger, did you ever "play" with such things as "proper" Meccano? The metal ones..not the plastic stuff. Perhaps some of you might even recall the old "Brickplayer" offering. (Little real bricks that were "cemented" together with a flour and water paste). Both of these so-called "toys" bred into kids of my generation the will to create a model of "something" that was unique to you, the builder. Even though the results may well have been absolute garbage, it didn't stop us kids trying to build something better than the one you'd seen built by a schoolyard "enemy". And so a child progresses.
   Tastes and so on change. I guess we all had a go at building a Keil Craft aeroplane of one sort or another. Usually they crashed...but no tears ensued. Par for the course. Save up more pocket money and start again. It taught us the meaning of "fortitude". A determination to persevere and get it right "next time". No instant gratification.
   Many of you will disagree with me, I'm sure. But that's basically a generational thing.
As kids we learned an awful lot from our "elders", listened and learned...and developed. No notion of poo-pooing what had gone before. we built on it. Try it sometime. Us old fogeys may yet teach you youngsters a thing or two...if you will only listen. BY.
Bryan, I had huge amounts of meccano, didn't have the cement together bricks, but had a forerunner of lego, it was small rubber bricks with holes in the tops and lugs on the bottom, they built onto base pieces (called minibrix), yes I made the rubber band planes too.
Grendel
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