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Author Topic: Ukraine Situation  (Read 3154 times)

Colin Bishop

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Ukraine Situation
« on: March 03, 2014, 06:41:28 PM »

For those people who think that running down our armed forces is justified on the grounds of cutting costs the current Ukraine situation ought to come as a wake up call.

Not because we are likely to become militarily involved in the Ukraine, we won't, but because it demonstrates that these crises can blow up out of almost nowhere and the next one could just possibly be a bit closer to home.

Intervening in the Crimea is not a likely scenario at all. But suppose Russia decided to threaten the Baltic states then NATO and the UK could suddenly be put directly into the firing line.

Russia is, for a number of reasons, an unstable state with very precarious economics based on state sponsored gangsterism. If things start to go pear shaped then there could be all sorts of consequences as the West at the moment is still very dependent upon gas supplies etc. Desperate people do desperate things  and grabbing other people's assets is a great temptation. A nominally stable situation could rapidly become a military flashpoint in which case running down our military assets could prove to be a big disadvantage as a backup to the West's negotiating situation.

If you don't have the military assets to head off these sort of threats (you don't necessarily have to use them) then you get walked over as history shows only too well and our politicians choose in their ignorance to ignore. Basically Russia has now grabbed the Crimea and the Ukraine military are powerless to prevent it.

And for anyone who says that the events in the Ukraine don't directly affect us, last week I sold off some shares as part of a relative's estate to which I am Executor. Had I waited until today we would have lost a lot of money when the stock marked dropped!

As always we live in interesting times!

Colin
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Neil

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Re: Ukraine Situation
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2014, 06:44:32 PM »

here here, Colin.......well said....I think there'll be buttock clenching when Haig and Cameron get together tonight!!! >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
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Netleyned

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Re: Ukraine Situation
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2014, 06:52:23 PM »

 :police: :police:

Family Forum

Less of the Buttock  Clenching Please %%

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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Ukraine Situation
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2014, 09:01:43 PM »


Locked


....  but if everyone promises to behave we'll open it up again for comments .... and general dismay of mankind!
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Colin Bishop

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Ukraine Temporart Topic
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2014, 09:15:03 PM »

Quote
Locked

....  but if everyone promises to behave we'll open it up again for comments .... and general dismay of mankind!

Um, but if you have locked the original topic how can we promise to behave? Answers on a postcard?

Colin
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Neil

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Re: Ukraine Temporart Topic
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2014, 09:48:29 PM »

Now that's a first for you Colin....having a topic locked................what would Mr Freshney say about that, lol {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)

Join the club, %% %% %% %% %% %%
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Ukraine Temporart Topic
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2014, 10:27:50 PM »

You're too young to remember the last time Neil. We all had our impetuous youth.  ;)

Colin
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Howard

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Re: Ukraine Temporart Topic
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2014, 10:34:08 PM »

Now is,nt that a refreshing change
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inertia

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Re: Ukraine Temporart Topic
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2014, 11:08:44 PM »

Down, Admiral! Resurrecting a locked topic has had folk red-carded in the past.  :-X
NH-P; You're in danger of building bridges........................take care with your street-cred  8)
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wee speug

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Re: Ukraine Temporart Topic
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2014, 12:23:00 AM »

I,m in shock....this topic has been un-locked....yet the Scotland one could,nt be....wonders will never cease....
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NFMike

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Re: Ukraine Temporart Topic
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2014, 01:46:25 AM »

As the title is "Temporart" I thought it was going to be about graffiti or something ...

RAAArtyGunner

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Re: Ukraine Temporart Topic
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2014, 03:02:49 AM »

As the title is "Temporart" I thought it was going to be about graffiti or something ...

So, It is  %) %) %)
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Ukraine Temporart Topic
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2014, 09:02:12 AM »

Quote
I,m in shock....this topic has been un-locked....yet the Scotland one could,nt be....wonders will never cease....

I certainly mean no disrespect to Martin but it seems that my intention in starting the original topic has been misunderstood.

I am not suggesting we should start a political debate in terms of taking sides in respect of the Ukraine situation as would be the case if there was a debate on Scottish independence. I simply wanted to highlight the point that at a time when many people (not on Mayhem) seem to go along with the idea of running down our armed forces on the basis that there will be nobody for them to fight, the reality is that major international crises can arise out of apparently nowhere with frightening speed and rapidly escalate to a stage hardly anyone would have expected.

I would hope we could have a civilised debate on that one!

Colin
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inertia

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Re: Ukraine Temporart Topic
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2014, 09:38:00 AM »

So the policy of running down the armed forces is not "political", then? We probably could have a sensible debate about it, Colin, but not on a model boats website. Please allow me somewhere to get away from the crassness, selfishness, greed and stupidity which prevails everywhere else.
Dave M
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Ukraine Temporart Topic
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2014, 09:44:13 AM »

Quote
Please allow me somewhere to get away from the crassness, selfishness, greed and stupidity which prevails everywhere else.

You do Dave, it's called the Model Boats Website!

Now I will be excommunicated for sure.... %)

Colin
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inertia

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Re: Ukraine Temporart Topic
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2014, 10:53:58 AM »

You do Dave, it's called the Model Boats Website!

Now I will be excommunicated for sure.... %)

Colin

If by that you mean that crassness, selfishness, greed and stupidity also prevail here  then you probably deserve to be. Is this what used to be called "doing a PMK"?  ;D
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Ukraine Situation
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2014, 11:26:04 AM »

 
Topics merged and unlocked.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Ukraine Situation
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2014, 11:31:39 AM »

Um, all I intended was to make what I though was a not very controversial point for discussion and lo and behold, fire and brimstone has descended upon me.  :((

No more from me on this particular topic.

Colin
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warspite

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Re: Ukraine Situation
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2014, 12:25:25 PM »

When I started to read this I thought it was a spelling mistake for Tempory Art, then all of a sudden it gets politically sensored like it was something in Russia  %) (ooo am definitely getting banned now  {-)), then it gets opened again - (serves you right for blocking free speech  :embarrassed:).

For my ten pence worth (inflation don't you know), I agree, that cutting back on armed forces spending is usually folly, what It does show is that irrespective of whether they pour money into it or restrict it, they never get it right, they either spend it on the badly designed or wrongly specd equipment or its completely mismanaged by those who do not have a clue as to what is absolutely needed, so it ends up costing more and is behind in delivery.

Nimrod - and its electronics debacle, an aircraft to replace the harrier - before they scrap it, an aircraft carrier or two that wont be operational whilst all the while there is no aircraft available to fly off it until several years after it is operational.

A fiscal cliff that we are perched on - while money is squandered / borrowed / give to others when those at home are in as much need, never has the phrase charity begins at home never meant so much etc etc etc.

Russia has a gangster for a leader whose legacy will be no different to those who preceeded him (with the exception of gorbachov), Ukranain situation is regrettable but, when has the Russians ever considered that what they do anything but right.

 
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chris gillespie

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Re: Ukraine Situation
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2014, 12:44:30 PM »

Hmmmm
 
For a fair assesment and contribution to this topic, all things must be taken into account.
 
My family has had a long tradition of serving in the armed forces, i dont knock what has been done and is still being done.
 
However it is ridiculous in this day and age, with science and technology affecting life so fully that wars still go on.....I think it is disgraceful and damm right wrong the military budgets worldwide are so huge and monsterous it could wipe out a huge chunk of the imaginery world debt, it would probably end starvation in the world and everyone would have access to clean water and the world would start to co-operate.
 
Oh what about national security and supposed threats, i hear you cry..........
Well butt out of other countries issues, stop raping and pillaging other countries resources.....bombing them and charging them to rebuild at highly inflated rates...holding them to ransom on trade and trying to install a western way of political rule.
 
Maybe then !!!!!!! Britain and America wouldnt be hated so much the world over
 
Lunatics run this country, with a lunatic system.....they join forces with other lunatics.....its all staged.
 
Do your own research, alot of the current government have strong german ties, one members father was a big fan of hitler and contributed a lot of money to hitlers cause.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Bob K

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Re: Ukraine Situation
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2014, 03:55:16 PM »

Please play nicely   :embarrassed:    At least News broadcasts have been full of photos of Russian warships that could be invaluable to members considering building a scale model of one.
 
When all the sabre rattling is done the E.U. and I.M.F. will pour in huge sums of aid, including a big chunk from our taxes.  Eventually the Ukraine will join the E.U. like other former Iron Curtain states.
Guess who will then be obliged to take in a million of their migrants?
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regiment

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Re: Ukraine Situation
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2014, 04:08:00 PM »

  my Scottish topic was not locked but dumped over board with no life belt  {-) {-)
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chris gillespie

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Re: Ukraine Situation
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2014, 04:10:48 PM »

Always play nice, just dont mamby pamby around  :-)
 
Its sketchy to get truthful reports
 
Reading between the lines, the government was turning its back on what the people wanted closer ties with and joining europe, the government and the leader were trying to reform ties with russia for what ever personnel gain....the people were not consulted in this as the leader took it on himself.....
 
The people have a right to protest, the countries own military or police shouldnt be allowed to act against its people.....the killings wouldnt have happened if that was so.....
 
Make no mistake, this is being carefully and selectively reported by the bbc...as a coup....or mass rioting and its the peoples fault etc....
 
The military and police would also be used against us in this country.....they are secretly passing through bills to do with protests and * coughs * crowd gatherings.....do your research.....
 
What better way to keep a man a slave, make him think hes free
 
No democracy in this country
 
 {:-{
 
 

inertia

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Re: Ukraine Situation
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2014, 06:23:55 PM »

Blowed if I can find them now, but I would have sworn that one of the Forum rules is "No Politics". Now politics is not a difficult concept to grasp; look it up in Wikipedia if you like. Part of the definition there says

"More narrowly, it refers to achieving and exercising positions of governance organized control over a human community, particularly a state".

If that isn't a pretty good description of the Ukraine situation and debate then I don't know what is. So what I'm left to assume is that politics is only a 'no-no' on this forum if it impacts on the UK (including Scotland). Do we also assume, therefore, that Religion is also permissible as long as it doesn't refer to any religion followed by folk in the UK (and Scotland)?

Make up your minds - you can't have it both ways.

Dave M
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chris gillespie

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Re: Ukraine Situation
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2014, 06:45:15 PM »

Blowed if I can find them now, but I would have sworn that one of the Forum rules is "No Politics". Now politics is not a difficult concept to grasp; look it up in Wikipedia if you like. Part of the definition there says

"More narrowly, it refers to achieving and exercising positions of governance organized control over a human community, particularly a state".

If that isn't a pretty good description of the Ukraine situation and debate then I don't know what is. So what I'm left to assume is that politics is only a 'no-no' on this forum if it impacts on the UK (including Scotland). Do we also assume, therefore, that Religion is also permissible as long as it doesn't refer to any religion followed by folk in the UK (and Scotland)?

Make up your minds - you can't have it both ways.

Dave M

Politics, is also policies, which covers everything......if there was no policies, then there would be no need for politics....and yip no need for police to police the policies for the politics to control us all.....
 
Trouble is people get touchy and offended  too easy and especially if you dont agree with their view points...That is the main trouble
 
So it is very hard for the team to "POLICE" their own "POLICIES" as its all inter twined.......
 
We could set up a thread for political debate and use code.....
 
Fluffy Bunnies = Scotland
Fresh Air = Independance/ Freedom
Death = Trident
Etc
 :-)
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