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Author Topic: Missing Flight MH370  (Read 22299 times)

Peter Fitness

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #100 on: March 18, 2014, 03:03:29 AM »

I  think a 777 would probably stand out in Neil's workshop.........on the other hand, having seen some photos of said workshop, maybe not %)


Peter.
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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #101 on: March 18, 2014, 07:22:39 AM »

I  think a 777 would probably stand out in Neil's workshop.........on the other hand, having seen some photos of said workshop, maybe not %)


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Bryan Young

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #102 on: March 18, 2014, 11:06:08 AM »

Diego Garcia is just a huge military base Bryan, Yanks have a big airfield there now and base B52's,B1B's and B2 Steaelth bombers there for missions to Afghanistan , nothing would get within 500 miles of that airfield without being detected by the E2C AWACS aircraft they have there.

News reports now saying the pilot was a fanatical follower of the now jailed leader of the Malaysian opposition ( who is a fairly hard line Islamist ) , if these reports are accurate then I'd put a bet on that this plane is sitting at a Republican Guard airbase in Iran. They weren't at full seating capacity meaning the Pilot could fill the tanks to the max flight take off weight meaning a much longer flight time ( its the pilot who decides how much fuel gets put aboard I think )
Davy, having been there a few times and "had the tour" I can vouch for the runway length as it was also an emergency strip for the Space Shuttle. My first visit was in 1972 when the B52s were doing circuits to Vietnam...it's much improved now. But it's more than an air base. The Maritime Sealift Command use the vast lagoon to hold a rather large fleet of fully loaded QR ships "just in case". And very impressive they are. Bryan.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #103 on: March 18, 2014, 11:14:34 AM »

Possibly a heck of a lot.  Remember that the 777 that crashed at Heathrow in 2008? That was on a Beijing - London run.  That is, in itself, a long way, but they do tend to carry a substantial reserve to cater for landing delays and diversions.  Figuring out how much fuel actually was on board is guesswork as well.  While the pilot decides how much is to be carried, and there will be filling records, no-one knows how accurate those records might be.  He might have a mate on the filling crew who could pour in an extra ton or so "off the books".  Fuel gauges in planes seem to run on guesswork anyway - look back at those cases where the pilot thought he was taking off with plenty but only had enough to get half way.
Malcolm.....the Great Circle route from Beijing to London is very much shorter than the more or less "straight" route (ie following a line of latitude). This shorter distance is well within range of a 777. The presently "assumed" route taken by the missing aircraft doesn't really allow for Great Circle routing to be employed....so geographically, at least, the range is shortened. Bryan Y.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #104 on: March 18, 2014, 04:05:26 PM »

Malcolm.....the Great Circle route from Beijing to London is very much shorter than the more or less "straight" route (ie following a line of latitude). This shorter distance is well within range of a 777. The presently "assumed" route taken by the missing aircraft doesn't really allow for Great Circle routing to be employed....so geographically, at least, the range is shortened. Bryan Y.
Quite true, thats why I took the precaution of using a globe and a piece of string.  If he had gassed it to the max, and traveled straight he could have reached Turkey, Egypt, Madagascar, and carrying the arc on, about halfway across Australia, given a reckoning from somewhere about the middle of the Bay of Bengal.  Last plotted heading NW?  I don't know how good the radar coverage is around there, but if he was knowledgeable enough, he would lose considerable range losing some altitude, but would gain the advantage of just vanishing, having taken a different heading.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #105 on: March 18, 2014, 04:45:04 PM »

Ah, Malcolm....you'e fallen into a bit of a trap here!
A Great Circle course always starts off aiming towards the pole of the hemisphere you are flying (or sailing) in.
Once you cross the equator the great circle first heads towards the opposite pole and then diverges from it.
So, in fact he'd be heading away from Australia (to the west) if such a course was being followed. His actual trajectory would be in the shape of a shallow "S". Sorry my friend, but if "your" course was followed they should be looking somewhere about 800 miles west of Aussie. A lot of water in that vicinity!.
Back to the drawing board, I think. Bryan.
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NFMike

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #106 on: March 18, 2014, 06:01:18 PM »

Ah, Malcolm....you'e fallen into a bit of a trap here!
A Great Circle course always starts off aiming towards the pole of the hemisphere you are flying (or sailing) in.

Er, I don't think so. A great circle route is the shortest distance between two points on the Earth's surface (or anything spherical-ish) without going sub-surface. Nothing to do with the poles.

Bryan Young

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #107 on: March 18, 2014, 09:56:38 PM »

Sorry "Plague"....in navigational terms great circles  relate to the N.Pole and S.Pole.
In terms of  Trigonometry and Geometry I suppose you could transpose the "poles" on to 0* and 180* of longitude...(that is, turning the earth (mathematically) through 90*. But it just doesn't work that way.
Going from the n.pole to the s.pole (direct) is automatically on a great circle route.
Still with me?
N to S follow lines of longitude. Try it with a bit of string on a globe. Any deviation will add distance. QED.
E to W (or vice verca) is a different thing altogether. BY.
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Circlip

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #108 on: March 18, 2014, 10:11:56 PM »

My Geography teacher also got it wrong then, Great circles were the shortest distance between two points when he taught.  O0 :o
 
  Great circles crossed both lines of latitude and longitude.
 
  Regards   Ian.
 
  PS. Wiki screwed up as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_circle
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F4TCT

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #109 on: March 18, 2014, 10:24:25 PM »

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-live-3254541


Someones found it apparently...


looks like a photoshop job to me, and yet its still all intact after landing in the jungle...


blks...
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Jerry C

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #110 on: March 18, 2014, 10:25:15 PM »

Brian, you've got your wires crossed a bit mate. A great circle between two points is a circle, the plane of which passes through the two points and the centre of the sphere. There are an infinite number of them. The meridians and the equator are also great circles. The shortest distance on the earths surface between two points is a great circle.
   A rhumb line between two points on the earths surface is a line on the earths surface that crosses the meridians at a constant angle. If continued along you will eventually reach a pole. A rhumb line appears as a curve on a globe and as a straight line on a Mercator chart. A great circle appears as a curve on a Mercator chart
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vnkiwi

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #111 on: March 18, 2014, 10:26:23 PM »

Wooww there.
Think you guys are talking at cross purposes here.
Your both right.
But Bryan is talking at plotting great circles onto flat charts, hope that's right Bryan.
Whilst the rest of you are talking about using a globe to show this.
Now if you guy's plot the strings route onto a flat chart, you will get the distorted path as per Bryans explanation
cheers
vnkiwi
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F4TCT

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #112 on: March 18, 2014, 10:30:30 PM »

further to my post and having researched a little further, it could be the aircraft shown is actually flying and landing at a strip a few miles away..
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NFMike

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #113 on: March 18, 2014, 11:36:03 PM »

Wooww there.
Think you guys are talking at cross purposes here.
Your both right.
But Bryan is talking at plotting great circles onto flat charts, hope that's right Bryan.
Whilst the rest of you are talking about using a globe to show this.
Now if you guy's plot the strings route onto a flat chart, you will get the distorted path as per Bryans explanation
cheers
vnkiwi

A flat chart is always tricky as it can't properly represent reality - the curved earth. The plotted route would be distorted but would not "always start off aiming towards the pole".
eg. If you wanted to take a great circle route from London to Penzance you would most certainly not set out toward Scotland and then turn left. You'd set out in a direction that was roughly west. And the plotted route would reflect that.

NFMike

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #114 on: March 19, 2014, 01:16:50 AM »

It occurs to me that there may be a confusion regarding "towards".
A great circle route when plotted on a chart will curve away from a simple straight line route and the direction of the curve will be toward the pole of the hemisphere you are working in.

E.g. if you plot a route from a to b where both points are at the same latitude then the simple route will be a straight line going east-west, but the gc route will 'bulge' towards the pole.

The further apart the points are the greater the bulge and ultimately if they are on opposite sides of the globe (180 degree of latitude apart) the gc route will pass through the pole. That last example is the only time you would actually aim for the pole, because you are going to pass over it.

tigertiger

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #115 on: March 19, 2014, 01:59:02 AM »

Another assumption being made in the navigation of the plane arguement.
The best possible route planned may not be the most efficient route, if one is evading detection.


I think this story may go down in history as another Amelia Earhart type event.
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warspite

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #116 on: March 19, 2014, 08:45:24 AM »

and that would be a shock if they found her plane.  :D , one report is the tia's confirmed a plane was heading north west trying to stay under radar - time will tell.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #117 on: March 19, 2014, 09:58:10 AM »

 
BBC: Missing Malaysia plane: 10 theories  - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26609687


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GAZOU

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #118 on: March 19, 2014, 11:22:06 AM »

A theory is missing

The plane passed above Himalaya.
King Kong is on holidays in Himalaya
King Kong caught the plane because in the plane there was an attractive blonde
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #119 on: March 19, 2014, 11:46:22 AM »

 
Too much Coffee for you today GAZOU   %%
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GAZOU

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #120 on: March 19, 2014, 12:36:15 PM »

No, no, I am to train to drink of the wisky for my holidays in UK.
In a month I visit some famous men at your country !!
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Bob K

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #121 on: March 19, 2014, 02:43:34 PM »

One possiblity is that the elevator servo has jammed in the +0/-0 neutral position. With this stuck the plane cannot descend and may still be up there. 
Has anyone counted aircraft arriving at airports and compared the data with flights acually confirmed on the arrivals board? A difference of one could be a clue.
My car SatNav regularly gets confused, like halfway between motorway junctions 20 miles apart "Turn around where possible".  Good job I can overide it.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #122 on: March 19, 2014, 03:37:00 PM »

I'm just a bit surprised that so many people seem to find the subject a matter of entertainment given that a couple of hundred people have almost certainly met with a terrifying death.... It may be interesting to speculate about what happened, if a bit pointless in the circumstances, but joking about it I think is in rather poor taste.

Colin
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inertia

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #123 on: March 19, 2014, 04:26:50 PM »

King Kong caught the plane because in the plane there was an attractive blonde
Could only have come from a Frenchman! Oo la la, Jean-Pierre!  :o

but joking about it I think is in rather poor taste.
Could only have come from an Englishman...........  Colin - I'm sure no offence was intended.

DM
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GAZOU

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #124 on: March 19, 2014, 04:27:18 PM »

If we do not take things in the fun so much to commit suicide at once

Every day there is Thousands of deaths

It is proved that the most dangerous place is a bed. Millions of people died in a bed
Or by falling off the bed

And nevertheless we joke about beds

Jean-Pierre
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