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Author Topic: Missing Flight MH370  (Read 22298 times)

warspite

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2014, 12:57:38 PM »

ships (planes) don't generally impact the water at 200mph (though some do ditch). The recorders are sealed in extremely strong boxes and buried in the tail to provide extra protection (thought so). Putting it on the surface of the aircraft would expose it to more damage and anything like a flotation pack would likely be stripped off in the crash (though a sonar buoy - could be ejected from inside whilst being flush with the surface of the fuselage). As mentioned, cost and weight are significant commercial factors too (about a Kilo for a sonar buoy), and getting the world's aviation authorities to agree on new rules to force adoption of such things is not easy (nigh on impossible).

A good solution is probably to introduce continuous data transmission back to 'base' but anything transmitting is potentially unreliable and the sheer volume of data would be phenomenal (unless a mobile type transmission burst every half hour of a couple of seconds - would give a closer indication especially over water).
 
I copied the above and its not a dig more of a suggested agreement and comment so please take it in the spirit intended - agreed in principle but my take is that a sonar buoy could be cheap - light and have a high degree of survivability in a total loss scenario, dye in the water could be released at the same time as a buoy as a back up (no good on land though), as a separate system to the boxes, recovering them would be easier if they were closer.
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HawkEye

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2014, 01:44:12 PM »


Is there some sort of conspiracy linked to this flight ? -


Flight MH370... 20 passengers were electronic specialists -
http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1907348&highlight=

Also -
"It is apparent that a huge radar “blind spot” that did not previously exist has occurred in the area. This Radar interference caused many aircraft to leave the radar screen in a 1 hour period — only one did not return on radar."
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/03/13/malaysia-air-flight-370-facts-of-the-flight-and-9-possible-scenarios/

And as odd as it may seem the two passengers with "stolen passports" seem to have the same set of legs???,(scroll down the page )
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2578020/Why-cellphones-missing-Malaysian-Airlines-passengers-ringing-Family-members-claim-loved-ones-smartphones-active.html

Why would they doctor a photo like this ? and do it so poorly ?.

There's more -

The wife of a missing passenger during a chat with  Piers Morgan  stated -
"He said to me, just as he was leaving, he said to me 'I'm going to leave my wedding ring here. It's no use me leaving it in my room on-site. So i'm going to leave my wedding ring and my watch, and should anything happen to me, I want the ring to go to the first son that's married and the watch to the second.
http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/12/wife-of-miss-flight-370-passenger-hes-my-best-friend-and-my-soul-mate-i-just-cant-wait-for-him-to-come-back-i-hope/

Very bizarre statement !

'HawkEye

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GAZOU

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2014, 01:58:48 PM »

Maybe they found

But they do not say it

They are countries where they have the cult of secrecy
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Bob K

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2014, 02:53:04 PM »

Speculation in the absence of confirmed facts is interesting.  However a point to remember is that aircraft that permanently disappear are almost unheard of.  eg:  Amelia Earhart and Glenn Miller.  The Air France flight that went down in the Atlantic did yield wreckage several days later. The longest wreckage finding delay was probably the Avro Lancastrian 'Stardust' that took over 50 years to exit the base of a glacier after hitting a mountain in 1947.  Steve Fosset's plane was finally found a year later.
Forget 'flight 19' (alien abduction) as wreckage has since been positively identified.
 
It will be found, but sadly far too late for grieving relatives.
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regiment

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2014, 04:05:46 PM »

while on exercise in Cyprus in 1969 we were told to camouflage the guns etc a raf  nimrod flew over and found every piece of equipment we hid even foot tracks so why with BETTER radar etc can we not find a aircraft
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Neil

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2014, 04:37:45 PM »

tell ya....alien abduction!!!! {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
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Circlip

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2014, 04:45:02 PM »

while on exercise in Cyprus in 1969 we were told to camouflage the guns etc a raf  nimrod flew over and found every piece of equipment we hid even foot tracks so why with BETTER radar etc can we not find a aircraft

   Cos they knew where to search.  Won't find many footprints in the sea, assuming it is in the sea.
 
  Regards   Ian.
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McGherkin

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2014, 05:56:00 PM »

It's definitely looking fishy.

The SATCOM pings sent out by the plane indicate that 5 hours after the plane switched off its transponder, it was cruising at its normal flight level. And the military radar which tracked the aircraft, tracked it following several 'waypoints' on an air route heading west, before losing it again. This points to deliberate pilot action. Even if it was just following autopilot, somebody would have had to program that course into it, as it's not the course it would have normally followed.

There are two types of radar, primary and secondary. Secondary radar works using the transponder, and gives details about the aircraft as well as its location and height. The transponder was switched off to evade this type of radar. Primary radar works like a ship's radar, in that you don't know who each contact is, but you know they're there. In the local area, the primary radar had a range of 200km, but the military radar had a longer range and so tracked the plane further. If the plane had come close to shore pretty much anywhere else in the world, the likelihood is it would have been picked up, unless it was shadowing another aircraft by practically flying next to it, which is incredibly difficult in an aircraft of that size.

The evidence points to the aircraft being deliberately flown to an alternate location. But the main question is where? There's a lot of places you can get to in 5 hours and 40 minutes at 500 odd mph, but very few places that you could do so without detection. If it has landed, it would certainly have to be covered up, possibly at a governmental level, and this is incredibly unlikely.

The aircraft was carrying 227 passengers instead of 243, which indicates a heavier cargo than normal. Could someone onboard be trying to steal it (if it was anything of value)? It's not unheard of for gold to be transported on commercial aircraft, or more sinisterly, weapons. But that's very unlikely.

All this sounds very tinfoil hat brigade, but it does raise questions.

I personally think that the pilot and/or copilot have tried to divert the plane to an alternate location, for whatever reason, and never made it, possibly by running out of fuel. It would certainly take a knowledgeable person to fly outside of radar detection for 5 hours, especially if they were anywhere near coastlines.

I feel desperately sorry for the passengers' families though, it must be a horrible feeling being, similar to losing people at sea.

Flight 19's wreckage has never been located by the way, several planes were found but they were later proven to be part of a dumping scheme.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2014, 06:19:26 PM »

Quote
The aircraft was carrying 227 passengers instead of 243, which indicates a heavier cargo than normal.

Not necessarily, scheduled flights frequently travel at less that full passenger capacity. But yes, it does look fishy.

Colin
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html

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2014, 06:25:29 PM »

I always thought that lifejackets and life rafts had transponders in them that started to work when they got wet, along with lights. Surely if the plane had gone down in the sea, no matter how tragically at least one of these devices would have started to transmit. So I would have thought the plane must be down in the jungle, if the plane had been taken to land it I think you need about two and a half thousand feet runway to get it down.
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McGherkin

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2014, 06:31:27 PM »

Here's a really good thread on Flyertalk, there's a lot of big brains on there bringing up some very interesting and valid points.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other-asian-australian-south-pacific-airlines/1558464-mh370-772-kul-pek-missing-1730-gmt-7-mar-2014-sar-underway-read-wiki-first.html
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2014, 06:47:31 PM »

Lifejackets are simple things with a light and whistle. I don't know about the rafts, apparently there were four on board. However, if a big airliner ditches in the sea then the prospects are not good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA5FMFVbVZ0

Colin
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DavieTait

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2014, 07:09:46 PM »

http://news.sky.com/story/1226217/plane-sent-signals-hours-after-contact-lost

Data still being send 5 hours after they dropped off transponder , that means a 2,500nm range meaning a 5,000nm circle around the last position that is a LOT of area to cover

They are shifting more into the Indian Ocean near the Andaman Islands ( there was a report of an unidentified seismic event there on the same day after this plane went missing so could be the plane hitting the sea , when the Kursk sunk the detonation of her torpedoes registered as a F4.4 earthquake )
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NFMike

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2014, 07:19:55 PM »

If it might be on land we should probably send a few dog walkers out to help.

Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2014, 07:56:48 PM »

http://news.sky.com/story/1226217/plane-sent-signals-hours-after-contact-lost

Data still being send 5 hours after they dropped off transponder , that means a 2,500nm range meaning a 5,000nm circle around the last position that is a LOT of area to cover

They are shifting more into the Indian Ocean near the Andaman Islands ( there was a report of an unidentified seismic event there on the same day after this plane went missing so could be the plane hitting the sea , when the Kursk sunk the detonation of her torpedoes registered as a F4.4 earthquake )

I would have thought the Satellite "ping" would have offered more information.
Perhaps, as reported, the Airline did not subscribe to the service, but the computers
would still be sending that data to the system. The ADS-B system implies that a lot
of info regarding the planes location, and status may have been recorded.

http://www.flightradar24.com/11.39,103.07/5

http://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works


However, the Boeing 777 was introduced in 1995, even flightradar24 states that there
may only be 60% of aircraft using the system. 2007 is the earliest, that I can see, regarding
rules of ADS-B tracking deployment. So it will be interesting to find out what system was pinging the satellite.

regiment

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2014, 08:16:01 PM »

circlip the nimrod did not know where we were thay were told to find us which the crew did we were  hidden in the trudoo mountains  as I said not with the equipment that is used today I knew an awac crew who  could find a needle in an hay stack as the saying goes 
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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2014, 08:33:10 PM »

ships (planes) don't generally impact the water at 200mph (though some do ditch). The recorders are sealed in extremely strong boxes and buried in the tail to provide extra protection (thought so). Putting it on the surface of the aircraft would expose it to more damage and anything like a flotation pack would likely be stripped off in the crash (though a sonar bouy - could be ejected from inside whilst being flush with the surface of the fuselage). As mentioned, cost and weight are significant commercial factors too (about a Kilo for a sonar buoy), and getting the world's aviation authorities to agree on new rules to force adoption of such things is not easy (nigh on impossible).

A good solution is probably to introduce continuous data transmission back to 'base' but anything transmitting is potentially unreliable and the sheer volume of data would be phenomenal (unless a mobile type transmission burst every half hour of a couple of seconds - would give a closer indication especially over water).
 
I copied the above and its not a dig more of a suggested agreement and comment so please take it in the spirit intended - agreed in principle but my take is that a sonar buoy could be cheap - light and have a high degree of survivability in a total loss scenario, dye in the water could be released at the same time as a buoy as a back up (no good on land though), as a separate system to the boxes, recovering them would be easier if they were closer.

 
The technology exists to enable the "Black" boxes to be found in an "instant" but they have not been upgraded due to the cost.
The mentality is they, planes, are crash resistant so why spend all that money on a one off occurrence. Where have we heard that before.
Someone said, if you lose your mobile phone, you dial a number or such, and you can find it, but they cannot find an aircrafts "black" box??????????
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Bob K

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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2014, 09:13:27 PM »

News item:  "Why a better black box wouldn't help"
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/03/why-malaysia-airlines-370-remains-so-profoundly-mysterious-and-why-a-better-black-box-wouldnt-help/284407/

Does not address the situation of a black box that continues to transmit real time data independent and irrespective of aircraft systems being turned of etc, Can have its own tamper proof supply et all. But No it wont happen because it is expensive to implement.
 
My understanding is, that radar does not track Commercial Aircraft, but they in turn transmit data that is displayed on Air traffic controllers boards, hence they know where the aircraft is. Which is why the public can via the internet track a known flight. The 'receivers' for this data are strategically placed around the world but not all airlines subscribe to the most recent upgrades/sytems, once again cost.
 
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GAZOU

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2014, 09:56:00 PM »

We found the plane, it is there



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Circlip

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2014, 10:58:31 PM »

Point I was trying to make Regiment is that they were trying to find you on Cyprus not Crete, Mallorca or Sicily, they were told to look for you there.
 
  Regards   Ian.
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wee speug

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2014, 11:23:55 PM »

tell ya....alien abduction!!!! {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
you might be next....... {-) .....
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F4TCT

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2014, 11:41:01 PM »

maybe they are filming another series of lost....


in all seriousness, as a pilot with a more than basic understanding of radar etc, there is no foreseeable way to land something that big on mainland without being seem visually or without being on someone's primary radar - unless you were covered by weather - at which you would be IFR and need a proper airport to land at with ILS etc.... - not going to happen as it hasnt landed there.


You cant even get a poxy 152 over the channel at 100ft with a boot load of coke from france without being detected...


At the same time, and for some reason, i get the feeling it isn't a crash either. I think there's a lot more going on than most people realise. there's some island in which is basically an air force base with a runway long enough to land the thing, which belongs to india or someone. Nobody thought to fly over as they will be shot down.....


Sat images released 'by mistake'. of course all them folk over that way are monitoring each other and something's kicking around to un-nerve folk. 


don't think its as far fetched as aliens, although im not discounting the theory. I was infact at the dentist earlier and it suspiciously reminded me of the time i was abducted by aliens.


passengers phones ringing out instead of going straight to voicemail.....


you are at the mercy of the authorities who run the 'local' satellites to tell the truth - not going to happen.


redirecting american satellites etc takes time, weeks or even months to align orbits with correct daylight for imagery etc.


the truth will come out soon enough.....



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tobyker

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2014, 11:46:31 PM »

Diego Garcia?
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Neil

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Re: Missing Flight MH370
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2014, 12:46:11 AM »

you might be next....... {-) .....

they'd get a b***** shock if they did...................they'd think we'd digressed back to primeval life,  {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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