Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -  (Read 25023 times)

qwerty2008

  • POST CAPTAIN
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Post Captain
  • Location: Adelanto Ca.
Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« on: March 20, 2014, 01:33:27 AM »

This will be a build log for my (getting mooned by this{ ;D } smiley is really kinda distracting) radio controlled Byzantium which is a custom (realizes that I misspelled custom in my other logs on other forums, goes back to corrected them) model based on the Pride of Baltimore. Sofar I have made the hull from wood and fiberglass, made the mast and am currently making the smaller bits and pieces until I get the servos that I need to make it sail.
Logged
I am who I am and I aint who I aint, if my beliefs offend you feel free to walk away.

Netleyned

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,986
  • Location: Meridian Line, Mouth of the Humber
    • cleethorpes mba
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2014, 08:46:55 AM »

Nice  :-)) :-)) :-))


That is going to look imposing when the sails are rigged




Ned
Logged
Smooth seas never made skilful sailors
Up Spirits  Stand fast the Holy Ghost.
http://www.cleethorpesmba.co.uk/

Brian60

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,315
  • Location: Hull,UK-but currently residing in Los Martinez, Spain.
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2014, 11:43:11 AM »

Loks good. Without a reference in the pic, how long is she?

qwerty2008

  • POST CAPTAIN
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Post Captain
  • Location: Adelanto Ca.
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2014, 07:30:31 PM »

The hull is abought 4.5 feet long rigged it is close to 7 feet long.




Lextin.
Logged
I am who I am and I aint who I aint, if my beliefs offend you feel free to walk away.

qwerty2008

  • POST CAPTAIN
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Post Captain
  • Location: Adelanto Ca.
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2014, 08:34:27 PM »

I have ordered the remaining servos for the Byzantium and have been working on small stuff here and there. These pictures that I am posting are not in order and do not represent an update so much as just showing miscellaneous details. As posting conditions on this forum are less then ideal I will most likely not update this tread very often so if you want the full log look this build up on MSW or RC groups.
Here is the keel bulb.


A pinrail with the cannon in the background.

A recent-ish full profile.

A drawing of what it should look like when it is finished.

The weeping angle figurehead.

and a view looking forward showing the riding bits, the windlass and the cannon.









Lextin.
Logged
I am who I am and I aint who I aint, if my beliefs offend you feel free to walk away.

qwerty2008

  • POST CAPTAIN
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Post Captain
  • Location: Adelanto Ca.
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2014, 04:48:44 AM »

My servos arrived today so I will be working on the rigging inside the hull.
   I just found out that the 4 security questions for each post was just for the first 5 post. The photo uploader is still giving me problems so I will start using Photo Bucket again.






Lextin.
Logged
I am who I am and I aint who I aint, if my beliefs offend you feel free to walk away.

qwerty2008

  • POST CAPTAIN
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Post Captain
  • Location: Adelanto Ca.
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2014, 10:58:22 PM »

I finally decided on a time period and profession for my Byzantium. It will be an American privateer circa. 1795-1812. I have made some temporary (paper) 15 star american flags as well as a wishbone style martingale boom.
   Abought the servos, I have been staring at the model with the deck off for hours at a time the past couple of days and know what I want to do but not the specifics like where the fairleads should come up trough the deck to line up with the pin rails and how to make a 3 inch arm for the rudder servo and how long the arms for the fore sail/jib sheets should be. I guess its safe to say that many more hours of staring at the model are needed.




Lextin
Logged
I am who I am and I aint who I aint, if my beliefs offend you feel free to walk away.

mrpenguin

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 286
  • Location: Tasmania, Australia
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2014, 12:18:18 AM »

...   Abought the servos, I have been staring at the model with the deck off for hours at a time the past couple of days and know what I want to do but not the specifics like where the fairleads should come up trough the deck to line up with the pin rails and how to make a 3 inch arm for the rudder servo and how long the arms for the fore sail/jib sheets should be. I guess its safe to say that many more hours of staring at the model are needed.
Lextin

With regard to the winching, I may be able to head you down the right path....
You may find it of value to work backwards from the sails and the booms / yards.
Let's consider just a single fore and aft sail such as the mainsail... (as shown in your picture "recent full profile")

First step would be to work out the angle you want the booms to move through from sheeted out to close hauled.

Next step would be to nominate a sheeting point and determine how far this is from the mast. You would also need to take into consideration the deck layout so you do not finish up with a fairlead in the middle of a hatch or such.

With the angle and the distance from the mast, you can now determine how much sheet travel you need.

Once you know the sheet travel, you can then work out the winching method. You will also need to have a servo with sufficient torque to handle the load.

You mention a sail winch servo with a three inch arm - this may be a problem below decks just to find room to swing it. It may also require a pretty strong servo. To reduce arm length, you may be able to use double haul - this would give twice the travel but half the torque.

One alternative may be a drum winch - while these are slower, they can transport far more line.
Here is a cheap example of a 6 turn winch that would give you about 250 mm of sheet travel: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__20855___SW4805_6PA_Sailwinch_Servo_6_13kg_45g_0_70.html

I notice in the sketch that there are also square sails and foresails. I would suggest you will likely need separate winches for the square sails and the fore-and-aft sails. I assume you would use braces to the yards of the square sails to swing them (with the braces running up the after mast first). Another way some have used was to fix the braces to the mast and rotate the entire mast, but this is not my preferred option. The foresails could perhaps be self tacking and may not need a winch, although they have a lot of effect on manoeuvrability as they are so far forward from the centre of the boat.

A vessel such as this is probably steered more by sails than by the rudder (even a very over-scale rudder) so getting good control of the sails remotely will help with manoeuvrability on the water.

While it may not seem immediately relevant to what you are building, you may find some inspiration regarding your winching from these videos of my "Recycle Challenge" square rigger, "Jive". It is approximately the same size as "Byzantium"  and uses 3 standard servo double haul winches - one for the square sails on the foremast (and also the flying jibs), a second winch for the square sails on the main and mizzen masts, and a third winch for the spanker...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZGjFR5CYUE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTj-aqYUX9g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7En4_8V24Xs

 
Logged
Amateur at work...

qwerty2008

  • POST CAPTAIN
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Post Captain
  • Location: Adelanto Ca.
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2014, 05:38:08 AM »

mrpenguin: Thank you for the advice but I have already worked out most of the sheeting issues but am getting stuck on the small stuff. The 3 inch arm I mentioned in my last post is for the rudder and there is ample room under the stern hatch for it to swing. The foresail/jib servo will be rigged as per Jerry's method and the mainsail is rigged to an open system winch servo with a pulley on a track to double the pull though I may remove the pulley later.     I rigged the mainsail months ago and have been working on the squares today. I mounted the square servo on a slide to take up the slack in the lines when the sails are rotated and now have a pretty good idea of how I will run the fairleads which I will try to make tomorrow as well as making the rudder servo mount. I also made the arm for the rudder servo which was surprisingly easy to make though I was unable to take a picture of it because my cameras battery died
   I have attached a non scale diagram showing my servos and where they will be mounted.






Lextin.

Logged
I am who I am and I aint who I aint, if my beliefs offend you feel free to walk away.

mrpenguin

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 286
  • Location: Tasmania, Australia
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2014, 06:32:29 AM »

Oops, my apologies....   :embarrassed:

I remember that thread with the clever idea of sliding winches, thought it was a different build!

This ship is looking good, keep at it....
Logged
Amateur at work...

qwerty2008

  • POST CAPTAIN
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Post Captain
  • Location: Adelanto Ca.
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2014, 06:42:23 PM »

The sliding winch was a different build, I will have to blame Jerry and his Pride of Baltimore build for that idea too.




Lextin.
Logged
I am who I am and I aint who I aint, if my beliefs offend you feel free to walk away.

qwerty2008

  • POST CAPTAIN
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Post Captain
  • Location: Adelanto Ca.
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2014, 08:13:15 PM »

I have made the fairleads for the squares and currently have the dry fitted so that I could test the sail rotation. I made two fairleads instead of the before mentioned four to prevent a possible problem below deck, the braces will now split above deck with the split disguised as a block.




Here is the arm I made for the rudder servo.

This picture shows the mainsail fairlead and one of the rudder fairleads.
Logged
I am who I am and I aint who I aint, if my beliefs offend you feel free to walk away.

mrpenguin

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 286
  • Location: Tasmania, Australia
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2014, 10:55:47 PM »

Looking good!

Prototyping in this fashion can sure save some grief further on in the build.....

I just found the dimensions in an earlier post; this is a BIG model - I thought she was much smaller. ("The hull is about 4.5 feet long; rigged it is close to 7 feet long")
Even at this early stage, it might be prudent to give consider to how you will be transporting and launching her and looking at how you might do the pond side rigging / derigging.

One other thing with this bigger size that would not have been an issue on a smaller vessel - the sliding winch..... is it possible that the sail load may slide the winch when you do not want it to? It will need a heavy spring to hold it I reckon...


Logged
Amateur at work...

qwerty2008

  • POST CAPTAIN
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Post Captain
  • Location: Adelanto Ca.
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2014, 12:01:41 AM »

"One other thing with this bigger size that would not have been an issue on a smaller vessel - the sliding winch..... is it possible that the sail load may slide the winch when you do not want it to? It will need a heavy spring to hold it I reckon"




Since square sails are fairly balanced the forces on the servo are minimal and shouldn't be much of a problem.
Since my last post I have epoxied the square fairleads in place and made the mount for the rudder servo, there is only one more servo to install and its the most complex one.
I was playing around with my radio and found out that the side to side sticks allow for more travel on the servos then the up and down sticks so I was able to coax another revolution out of my mainsail winch by linking it to the left side to side stick and no longer need the pulley that doubles the pull. Here is my new stick layout which makes best use of this quirk.




Lextin.
Logged
I am who I am and I aint who I aint, if my beliefs offend you feel free to walk away.

qwerty2008

  • POST CAPTAIN
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Post Captain
  • Location: Adelanto Ca.
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2014, 07:00:28 AM »

my photos seem to have broken due to me organizing my photobucket so I will post them again. sorry they are out of order but I don't want to figure out where they go. Dont worry this thread will eventually become more coherent.


















Lextin.
Logged
I am who I am and I aint who I aint, if my beliefs offend you feel free to walk away.

qwerty2008

  • POST CAPTAIN
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Post Captain
  • Location: Adelanto Ca.
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2014, 10:24:39 PM »

I have mounted the rudder servo and the foresail servo.
[/size][/color]
[/size]I will rewrought the main sail line (blue) trough some eyebolts (red) to keep it from interfering with the rudder servo.[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]Lextin.[/color]
Logged
I am who I am and I aint who I aint, if my beliefs offend you feel free to walk away.

mrpenguin

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 286
  • Location: Tasmania, Australia
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2014, 10:53:40 PM »

Another method for controlling that main sail line and avoiding potential tangles might be to extend that brass tube through the swing area of the rudder servo. You could shape the tube to keep it out of the way but still maintain a more or less straight line. I have used this technique in a couple of places and it worked out well for me.
Logged
Amateur at work...

qwerty2008

  • POST CAPTAIN
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Post Captain
  • Location: Adelanto Ca.
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2014, 07:02:05 AM »

mrpenguin: I have already installed the eyebolts which actually serve duel purposes because they keep the line to the side of the battery hatch but I will keep your idea in mind in case the problem persist.


Lextin.
Logged
I am who I am and I aint who I aint, if my beliefs offend you feel free to walk away.

qwerty2008

  • POST CAPTAIN
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Post Captain
  • Location: Adelanto Ca.
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2014, 08:35:45 PM »

I decided that my original rudder was kinda ugly so I made a new one and this time out of wood. The rudder will have a clear plastic insert to make it larger but I still need to cut the groove that it will fit into. I was halfway though cutting the rudder when my bandsaw started making a ting.... ting.... ting.... ting sound so I stopped cutting and was trying to locate the problem when I heard a snap and felt something hit my shoulder, I instantly knew that I was in for a long session of hand sawing but I did get the rudder finished. Now the bandsaw is temporarily out of commission until I get a new blade.



















Lextin.
Logged
I am who I am and I aint who I aint, if my beliefs offend you feel free to walk away.

qwerty2008

  • POST CAPTAIN
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Post Captain
  • Location: Adelanto Ca.
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2014, 03:01:56 AM »

The armament of lack there of has been bugging me so I want to add a pivot gun amidships but cant seem to find any useful information around the interwebs so I am asking for help. I was think of a 18 pounder with a compact carriage that rotates around its center rather then one end would this be an unrealistic setup? also what are the dimensions of a 18 pounder barrel? also pics or drawings of a simaler gun would be helpful. Thank you.







Lextin.
Logged
I am who I am and I aint who I aint, if my beliefs offend you feel free to walk away.

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,087
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2014, 03:31:14 AM »

Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

Netleyned

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,986
  • Location: Meridian Line, Mouth of the Humber
    • cleethorpes mba
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2014, 08:39:37 AM »

After looking at Derek's link,
I think anything that looks right
will be right.  8)


Ned

Logged
Smooth seas never made skilful sailors
Up Spirits  Stand fast the Holy Ghost.
http://www.cleethorpesmba.co.uk/

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,087
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2014, 09:26:10 AM »

 %) .....I found this example of an 18 pounder with 13 degrees elevation & 12 degrees depression a good example.......................Derek

Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

qwerty2008

  • POST CAPTAIN
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Post Captain
  • Location: Adelanto Ca.
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2014, 10:17:09 PM »

Thank you all for all the help I did find what I needed and have turned a barrel. I wasn't thinking that it would be so big and am starting to question my decision to add it, I will make the carriage then decide if I want to keep it or possibly use a 12 pounder or a carronnade instead.
Here are some pictures showing the size compared to my 6 pounder.









Lextin.
Logged
I am who I am and I aint who I aint, if my beliefs offend you feel free to walk away.

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,087
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: Byzantium by qwerty2008 - 1:20 scale - RADIO -
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2014, 10:51:17 PM »

Lextin...all of your structural work in 5 ply appears to be very sound  :-)) ... do you use a router to notch the frames prior to gluing & screwing?....& what type of glue are you using where the frames meet the hull planking?..........Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up