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Author Topic: HMS Illustrious 87  (Read 109280 times)

Paul Swainson

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HMS Illustrious 87
« on: April 30, 2014, 12:24:31 PM »

I am hoping that someone may be able to help me in my scratch build of HMS Illustrious 87 from the period 1939 to 1942.   I have the full Naval plans of the ship and I am in the build of the Island A to D decks. 
The problem I have at the moment is the mounting of the carley floats on the side of the island from B deck down to the flight deck.
I have the sections plans for section 92 through to 69 which covers the area of the carley floats, also the side profile.   I am not able to see clearly how they were mounted as there are two platforms shown but one is not on the section 69 and not on 92.  There is also a walk way above the mounting platform which has a grating and stanchions to give access to the flight signal lamps positioned along this walk way which is above the carley mounts.   There is also retaining reels for each float position below the mounting deck on all the decks shown, but not sure how they are reached and how they retain the floats.
My question is can any one help with old photos of the area of the ship as all the photos I have are distance shots which are too grainy to blow up to see detail.  Or has any one seen or served on this hip during the period I am building (a long shot I know)
My build photos are on my flicker page which is my URL.
Thanks in advance of any help you can give or places to check.
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2014, 10:54:52 PM »

Hi Paul


I'll have a look in my books for any close ups of the Carley floats on Illustrious. Let you know by Saturday.


Nick
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2014, 02:07:02 PM »

Hi Paul


Found some pictures for you, not of Illustrious but of her sistership Victorious during 1942, the images below are from Anatomy of the Ship book 'The Aircraft Carrier Victorious'.














Hope they help.


Nick
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2014, 12:12:26 AM »

Thanks Nick, I have the same information but had difficulty in trying to understand how they were held in place and launched so that I could build the same on the model.   I have found out how the Carley floats are mounted and launched.   The small deck that juts out from B deck has 7 rods protruding out which holds the main support cable which holds the Carley floats in place.  As you will see from the small attachment this cable make a upside down Y which hold and runs to the back of the Carley floats and is retained under the small deck in reels, which must be braked.   The next deck down is were the crew go to release the floats.   As they are lowered the upside down Y hold the Carly float in position until they reach the sea and are then released.
The set up for Victorious is nearly the same but the 1st photo shows the Victorious after her second refit where she has installed a top and lower layer of AA 23 x 2 x 20mm Oerlikon .   Lusty did not have them in 1939 to 1942.
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hmsantrim

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2014, 11:35:24 AM »

 Hi paul.
 Some photos of my lusty plans. you can click  on them to enlarge
 frank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
photo PICT0178_zpse4b8c9f9.jpg height=663
 
photo PICT0178_zpse4b8c9f9.jpg height=675
 
photo PICT0177_zps8044abb9.jpg height=675
 
photo PICT0176_zpsf3c7a49c.jpg height=675
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2014, 04:01:36 PM »

Thanks Frank,  I have a digital copy of the same plans (1/16 to 1 foot) but my copy has too many dark areas to work with so have the Naval plans (1/8 to 1 foot) which is the 1/96 scale. 
Did you build the ship from your plans or have you not started yet.
Build photos are on my URL.
 
Paul
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hmsantrim

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2014, 07:32:55 PM »

Hi paul.
           had a hull for the Lusty some years ago and had it stored in a family members garage.  Had to move it on as cousin sold house after last of children left home and SWMBO ordered downsize from a bungalow to a flat.  Just kept a copy of the plans for my self for possible future use.  They are the original shipyard plans over 70 years old which is why they have a few black lines on them.  I see you sourced your self a nice clean copy. Ever thought  about getting the plastic kit as a build assist item.
 rgds frank.
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hmsantrim

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2014, 06:35:35 AM »

Hi Paul.
    another version to look at.
       frank
       http://www.steelnavy.com/HellerIllustriousLC.htm
       
       
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2014, 11:58:28 AM »

The problem with plastic kits is the period of the ship.  I want to build her as she was from the drawing table to the finished ship.  So that means that the ship plans need to be followed.  She had her first refit in 1942 then again 1943-1944 and then again in the late 40's by which time she had changed a lot.  I like the clean lines of the original build and its hard to find clear photos of this and to find others who have built the same ship during the same period.  Some have mixed the build including and excluding components that make the difference.   The mast for one gives the game away and then all the extra bridge wings with 20mm guns etc.  The rear slopping flight deck, need I go on.
But thanks for your help as I was never in the RN but a foot soldier, but did spend my young years station in Malta GC during the 60's I got a love for the warships and have built one or two.  The Last being HMS Solebay, which I used to see all the time when I was in Malta GC.  So sometimes when I see the plans and then try to put them into a 3d picture and make that come to life I need to know who it worked and then I can make sense of what I am trying to build.
The Hull I have is actual that of the last ship in the Illustrious  class, HMS Indomitable (92) the two ships were built along side each other and her hull was the best shaped and must efficient to reduce drag in the water.   But her top lines were altered to suit a slightly.  Here is a ling to the builders Yard. http://www.dockmuseum.org.uk/archive/browser.asp?subject=&title=&subtitle=&searchtype=1&deepcriteria=illustrious
Hope you like.
Paul
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hmsantrim

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2014, 01:33:06 PM »

Hi Paul.
           so you are modelling her for the home waters /mediterranean theatre then.
             frank.
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2014, 01:50:05 PM »

That is correct Frank, Lusty is going to be built as she was upto the day she left Malta for Alexander and theen to the USA for repairs.   The only diference will be she will have Seafires and swordfish as her aircraft.
 
Paul.
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hmsantrim

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2014, 02:24:59 PM »

 HiPaul.
      just wondered  about the air group as if she was going to modelled for far east the roundels would have to be changed to blue.
       frank   
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2014, 11:28:08 PM »

Hi Frank, here is the link to all my build photos for lusty.   I will update the photos has I do each bit so you and other members can see how she is coming along.   https://www.flickr.com/photos/92998762@N02/sets/72157640833731444/
Paul
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2014, 07:02:19 PM »

Have now come to the conclusion that I will need to build my own hull of Illustrious and am looking for some help in two area, so if any one can help please shout.
1st.  Require a copy of the ship lines, in 1/96 scale or any other scale to allow me to create my own hull, which when built will be passed to a company to make the correct size and shape hull.
2nd.  Any books or reference points on the net to show and advise new hull builders how to go about building a hull.   I have read some information and have spoken, but would like some more reference lit to read.  No such think as too much information.
Thanks for any help anyone can give in advance.
Paul
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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2014, 07:39:49 PM »

Don't  Deans do a 1/96 invincible hull in Mouldeans?


Bob
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2014, 08:15:36 PM »

Yes Bob they do and I have one, but it is not really the correct hull.  The height is not correct, the length is not the same and the beam is far too flexing.  The front spoons are too far back, which pushes the island structure back when the island is further forward.  With the hull height after squaring off the deck are all wrong the W/L is wrong.  So I feel that I need to make my own hull and then with Deans help they will use it to make me a hull to suit the actual HMS Illustrious and they my keep the hull so they can make more for other customers.
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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2014, 08:17:36 PM »

Have now come to the conclusion that I will need to build my own hull of Illustrious and am looking for some help in two area, so if any one can help please shout.
1st.  Require a copy of the ship lines, in 1/96 scale or any other scale to allow me to create my own hull, which when built will be passed to a company to make the correct size and shape hull.
2nd.  Any books or reference points on the net to show and advise new hull builders how to go about building a hull.   I have read some information and have spoken, but would like some more reference lit to read.  No such think as too much information.
Thanks for any help anyone can give in advance.
Paul

Hi Paul, After all the work you've done, what's up with the hull you have, the last I saw you had all the frames in.  {:-{

Joe.

Ok you have already answered  :-))
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2014, 10:21:11 PM »

Yes Joe,
The hull was squared off today to finish off the hull frames ready for the drilling of the prop shafts.  I then found that the hull was not high enough, so tried to mark out the hanger deck upper and lower gallery decks, which would not fit with the correct space between each.  I could rub the hull sides down to remove the opening and the port holes that are marked in the gel coat, and then redo the W/L lower down and then using those marking mark out the decks, but that will make the quarter deck that I cut out for the access for the rudder tiller too high and not aligned up with the other deck openings on the same level.   So before I do any more work on the hull to that end I am looking into making my own hull from the ship lines and than get my own made.  If not I will continue with what I have and make do.
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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2014, 11:13:05 PM »

That's a shame mate, a bit of a set back but I'm sure you will overcome it, good luck with it anyway.   :-))

Joe.
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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2014, 09:02:17 AM »

You can get a set of plans from Fleetscale for their Victorious in 1/128th scale.


http://www.fleetscale.com/store/hms-victorious-ww2-aircraft-carrier/503-1-128th-hms-victorious-drawings-plans.html
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2014, 12:01:30 PM »

Its not totally lost but I do want to build a good model.   So I am now costing up the items I will need to do my own hull and see if the work is possible.   The plans are held and can be purchased from the NMM for the ship lines in 1/96 and are as 1937 when she was laid down.  I am off to price a Melamine board 9ft long and 18 inch wide to allow me to build the hull on.   Also need to find a supplier of 1/8 ply to cut the bulkheads out of.   Also need a T square ruler 24 inches long, and they all seem to be sold from the USA, but Amazon seem to do them but will go to my local art shop in Ayr on Monday and see what they have.  So thinks will be added up and then a decision will be made.
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2014, 12:04:27 PM »

Thanks for the info rsm,  I spoke with Fleetscale today and they do the plans but would not recommend them as they are draw and may not recreate what I am looking for so the NMM will be getting an order if I go ahead with the build.  But thanks for the pointer.   It did supply one nice bit of info in that they do 1/96 scale parts for this ship.
Paul :-))
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2014, 12:42:34 PM »

Ship lines now on CAD file and have had them printed out for each one of the hull ribs all I have to do now is get my building board built and make the frame for them to fit on.   Have to read up on how the bow and stern are made and fitted to the keel.  Any pointers anyone? Would like some tips in this area, as the bow is very thin compared to the beam of the keel which will be about 6 mm thick or more.
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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2014, 09:00:12 PM »

Being new to model boat building my self I have seen a few different ways including making the bow and stern blocks from balsa or similar so that you do not have the problem of bending planks around tight curves and forming complex angles, while the other is very traditonal in creating a keel former with stem and stern posts like you would if building a wooden ship, i.e, HMS Victory.

Some kits such as those Machette partwoorks have plastic stem and sterns.
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2014, 05:03:17 PM »

Work started on the bulkheads for the keel and they have come out and fit very nicely, looking forward to fitting the rest. (dry fit)
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