Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.

Author Topic: HMS Illustrious 87  (Read 109295 times)

Sandy

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 301
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #125 on: May 10, 2015, 03:36:29 PM »

 
Hi Paul,
 
I am not sure I understand what you are asking regarding the bow?
 
But, make sure when shaping the balsa sections that you use a Permagrit or sanding block that spans the plywood frames. This stops, should you use a short sanding block or just sandpaper on your fingers, the balsa form 'dipping' due it sanding more easily than the ply and so the shape 'dips' in the balsa.
 
You can also hit snags laterally where your planks and planking ends and the soft balsa starts unless you manage to keep the sanding implement large enough to avoid dipping.
 
Looking good though. The superstructure looks great!
 
Would you bring it to the NWW in July as a work in progress?
 
Best wishes
Sandy
Logged

Paul Swainson

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Ardrossan Scotland
    • My build of HMS Illustrious 87 1939-1942
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #126 on: May 10, 2015, 03:47:31 PM »

Hi Sandy,


As you know from the pictures of Lusty and other in her class before and after; the bow has a very defined shape.  I was looking  around for a way to make a copy of this shape in a way like a cardboard cut out section for each side to mirror the shape and sand with paper to that shape by matching the cutout with my work.  Is their any kind if way to get a two dimensional view from the picture either CAD drawing or a tool.


Would not mind bringing  the  build to the weekend but it depends on what dates I am free as my daughter is over from Oz with her husband and then I have a wedding to go too.   So will look at the dates on this system and see if I can make it.   I do not have any way to display this model on a table or any cover for it should it rain.   Do you want me to bring all the work so far including the planes and items made by hand.  Paul
Logged

John W E

  • I see no ships !!
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,508
  • Location: South shields
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #127 on: May 10, 2015, 04:49:47 PM »

hi ya Paul

There is a way to create a 3D image and also a model:-

 by using your frame plans and plotting where the frame cuts through the vertical buttock lines and also the horizontal water lines of set frames from the bow.   

Each intersection will be marked off onto a piece of cardboard; forming the profile shape which could be cut out from the cardboard and offered up against the hull.

The only thing I don't understand is - why have you blocked the stern section in with balsa wood?   Would it not have been easier to vertically plank, tapering the planks towards the keel forming a cone shape.   I have noticed that there is an intermediate deck at the stern for all the mooring winches etc., which have large cut outs in - which is going to be a bit awkward to cut from balsa wood.

aye

john

Logged

Paul Swainson

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Ardrossan Scotland
    • My build of HMS Illustrious 87 1939-1942
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #128 on: May 11, 2015, 11:56:36 AM »

Hi John,  as you can see from the ship line plans supplied by the NMM; are the only ones on file.    The bow lines (shape) does not match the final build.  These are dated 1937 the bow changed shape from these plans so I can not see how to work from them.  When I spoke with NMM they confirmed that this problem has been reported before by others.   So I have to work with photos and try to get an idea of the the shape.   The one thing I do have is the GRP hull which I could copy the shape of the bow to suit the build.


As for the rear quarter deck which sits on the line of the hanger deck; has only a small balsa wood insert which is only about 1/2 deep.   This can then be drilled out very easily when the resin has been applied over the finished hull and then shaped.  I wanted to use wood all the way round but did not like the look of the wood bending at the bottom of the keel and thought the pressure around this area should be a low as possible.  Also felt that balsa wood was easy to shape and work with.   Think I got it right and the proof of the pudding will be in the final display.


As most of the sub decks either side of the hull are inline (except the boat decks which are slightly higher and lower of this line) with the hanger deck, I had to leave the the blanks supports in to hold the planking.  Once the planks are on and the resin and gelcoat have been applied they can be cut away where required as the hull be be stronger and held in place around these areas. 


So will look at your idea and see if any shape can be made with the lines shown and compare with the grp hull.


Paul
Logged

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,195
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #129 on: May 11, 2015, 11:40:36 PM »

Paul......just my twopence worth  :o

P 113844 Elevation View
F/R is a reference line created where the waterline intersects the hull, it also projects upwards where this line meets [the deck?] and from there a dimension FWD to the extremity of the deck

P 113843 plan view
F/R also referenced the axis or centre of the pod...however this pod in the real vessel is partially outboard of the footprint of the deck....the position of the pods in the photograph is also approx. the length of 5 people or say 25'........

It is nearly as though the End Elevation and Elevation plans do not show the actual deck level....they have a hide  >>:-( selling such incomplete plans....[possibly drawn by a 1st year apprentice or the Tea Lady  :embarrassed:]

The only reference to the foot print extremity of the deck is shown in the plan view

There are masses of images of Illustrious in Google........and all provide a much better perspective of the final build

I would be inclined to build from the photographic images, as your GRP model is only another persons interpretation of ???...

Take a plastic lamination image of one of the references that you base your build and if anyone questions your model......you simply say ...here she is in B&W

Keep us posted....... Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

Paul Swainson

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Ardrossan Scotland
    • My build of HMS Illustrious 87 1939-1942
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #130 on: May 12, 2015, 03:00:21 PM »

Hi Derek,  Thanks for the information I can use the 1st photos but the second was taken after her major refit in 1943/44 when the stern slop was removed also the bow and extra weapons were fitted and the forward master was changed.
I have the flight deck plans so can use the FP (Forward Point) to get the correct distance to the edge of the flight deck and pick up the downward slop of the flight deck to the edge.  Sample of some photos I also found in the net.
Will take my time on this work as it could ruin the model if the shape is wrong.
Logged

John W E

  • I see no ships !!
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,508
  • Location: South shields
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #131 on: May 12, 2015, 03:40:59 PM »

hi ya Paul, did you manage to get hold of the book, 'Ship Modelling from Scratch' by Edwin B Leaf?

As I mentioned earlier on - in this book there is a chapter devoted about enhancing drawings from photographs - and this would help you no end with your problem with the bow.

aye

john
Logged

Paul Swainson

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Ardrossan Scotland
    • My build of HMS Illustrious 87 1939-1942
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #132 on: May 12, 2015, 05:36:50 PM »

Hi John,  Not yet have not been able to find one with a reasonable price but still looking.
Paul

Logged

Paul Swainson

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Ardrossan Scotland
    • My build of HMS Illustrious 87 1939-1942
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #134 on: May 17, 2015, 10:08:17 PM »

Hi John finally found one I thought they was hard back covers, which was why I was taking so long to find one so the paper back one  is ok, will read up and see what it has to say.  It there any chapter that you know will help me before I read from cover to cover.


Paul
Logged

Paul Swainson

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Ardrossan Scotland
    • My build of HMS Illustrious 87 1939-1942
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #135 on: June 16, 2015, 03:09:51 PM »


The bow shape is coming along nice and slow, need to take my time in this area will post pictures soon once I feel they give a fair view of what the bow will look like

I also am trying out some model moulding kit from a company which looks good but as I was given it free to try I will see how it goes.  The first moulds came out OK.  The mould is very elastic and can take some broad shapes and come out of the mould nicely.  I tried a few moulds on lift rafts, door and a ammo box.  I have been advised that Lego bricks are the best to use for making the box as they hold better and when the mould is cured they come apart and can be used again.  so will try Joe's and this idea and see how they work out.


Have a few more moulds on test will show photos when they come out.

Logged

Paul Swainson

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Ardrossan Scotland
    • My build of HMS Illustrious 87 1939-1942
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #136 on: July 26, 2015, 04:47:06 PM »

Well I have been quite of late that does not mean I have not been working on the planking.  Had a good read of a few books and carried out some dummy work on bending and fitting planks to frames.  So have started to plank now so will post a few photos of the work done so far.  As she is a long ship will not boar you with every step but will give a progress report at every important part. 


Also been working on the carley rafts the group that is on the island and hanging from the side.  I had already made the frames for them to be hanging from but tried a few ways to make the retaining straps so that they look the part.  So I am of the the local dress makers to see if I can get some cloth strips about 2mm in width to look like strapping to hold the rafts in place.  Tried cutting 0.4 mm plastic card but that breaks at the join when glued and folded.  So cloth will have to do.   
Logged

Paul Swainson

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Ardrossan Scotland
    • My build of HMS Illustrious 87 1939-1942
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #137 on: July 27, 2015, 03:42:00 PM »

Some photos of the work so far.  Started with laying two 5mm sections to start off the run of planks, that was followed by two sections of 10 mm planking.  Each section was laid up and positioned to ensure that they all laid flat and flush with the next plank.  Then worked out where each section joined at the frames so that I had staggered joints all along the keel never having more than one on each bulkhead.  I could only do one plank section at a time and used small flat square sections held by clamps to ensure the sections between the bulkheads married up and bonded flush with the upper bonded blank.   
Logged

Paul Swainson

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Ardrossan Scotland
    • My build of HMS Illustrious 87 1939-1942
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #138 on: July 27, 2015, 03:52:34 PM »

Before bonding each plank is positioned and clamped in place overnight to get it to hold the bends and curves of the hull line.   This helps in the bond as the planks are ready to be bonded the next day.  So far no need to steam to gain shape.
Logged

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,601
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #139 on: August 02, 2015, 09:53:08 PM »

Good to see it is gently coming on.
The idea of dry clamping the planks to take on the shape needed is a good one.
 Noted in the memory :O)

Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,876
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #140 on: August 03, 2015, 01:08:15 AM »

You can never have enough clamps!  :police:

Hull's looking good!

Andy

Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

Paul Swainson

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Ardrossan Scotland
    • My build of HMS Illustrious 87 1939-1942
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #141 on: August 03, 2015, 05:06:16 PM »

Yes the hull is coming along nice and slow.  Due to the number of clamps I can only do three planks per day so its going to be a long hall.   Once the bottom of the hull is planked and passed the bilge keel I will need to watch to start planking from the deck line up to the keel and match in the  splinters.
Logged

Capt Podge

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3,408
  • Location: Blyth, Northumberland
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #142 on: August 03, 2015, 05:12:04 PM »

You must have the patience of a saint.
 
However there are, no doubt, plenty other little jobs to be doing while you wait  O0
 
Regards,
 
Ray.
 
Logged
Pop top campervan needed

Paul Swainson

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Ardrossan Scotland
    • My build of HMS Illustrious 87 1939-1942
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #143 on: August 03, 2015, 08:11:24 PM »

Well that me about one third of the way through, as you can see now I have to start shortening the planks lengths  to create a straight line round the hull sides to create the water line.  That now means I will have to tailor the ends to match up with the water line at the stern and bow.  A lot of cutting and trimming.
Logged

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,601
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #144 on: August 03, 2015, 08:50:27 PM »

Can you use 'Stealers' to make your planking easier or is that just going to add more complex sanding and carving to the job?

I love the way the planks conform to your frames so lithely Paul, looks gorgeous.
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

Paul Swainson

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Ardrossan Scotland
    • My build of HMS Illustrious 87 1939-1942
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #145 on: August 04, 2015, 03:45:12 PM »

Here is how I am planning to work out how the remaining planks are going to be fitted to the water line level.  Marked the water line from the deck and marked each bulkhead. Then placed a 10 mm plank to below the line and held in place while I check the any future planks placed will seat straight and should not require any major stealers to be fitted.  Once done placed a 5 mm plank above the 10 mm I had just placed and then pinned in place.   The under side of this plank will be the top of the water line.  Then using the clamps I placed a mixture of 5 mm and 10 mm planks in place held by clamps to work out how best to position the main planks and mark for were they need to be cut to fit into the next plank.   Once done I remove the planks one by one and place them on my work bench in order they came off ready to be fitted back in place once the final cuts have been worked out and cut.
Logged

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,601
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #146 on: August 04, 2015, 09:52:42 PM »

I have been taking notes on the way you reinforced your build board as well Paul.

Tidy work mate:O)
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

Paul Swainson

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Ardrossan Scotland
    • My build of HMS Illustrious 87 1939-1942
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #147 on: August 06, 2015, 06:04:18 PM »

You seem to have a very keen eye Ian,  yes it was recommended in one of the books I read to ensure the board was mounted on a good solid frame to ensure it does not twist.   I have to stop work for a few days now as I have just had an op for an herna and not able to lift or stand for a few weeks.  So will be sitting down doing some more gun turrets.
Logged

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,601
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #148 on: August 06, 2015, 10:36:45 PM »

Good idea Paul. You don't want your hobby hospitalising you. Good luck with the operation.

I like to take in as much as I can from a photo. I work on the principle that you have made the effort to upload them, so we might as well make the effort to study them; and so learn a few ideas. I was wondering about mounting my first build board on lengths of angle iron as getting very straight wood might not be so easy. I suppose it requires careful selection to make sure you don't buy warped lengths.

Keep up the good work!
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

warspite

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,836
Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #149 on: August 07, 2015, 01:54:07 PM »

even angle iron warps over a set length and it twists
Logged
Operational - 1/72 LCMIII, 1/180 Royal Sovereign
Non Operational - 1/72 Corvette, 1/72 E-Boat, 1/72 vosper mtb
incomplete, HMS Victory, tug, cardboard castle class convert, got the new job, looking again though
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18   Go Up