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Author Topic: HMS Illustrious 87  (Read 109282 times)

Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #300 on: May 07, 2017, 10:20:37 AM »

Completed the bow search light decks.  Due to the shape of the bow I needed to use a shape forming tool to enable me to cut the best fit for each of the support legs.  Feel I did a not too bad a job, from the temp plate first made to the final finished units.
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #301 on: May 07, 2017, 10:46:28 AM »

The engine bay has now been fitted out with the new home made mounting blocks to hold the motors in place.  These can be removed with just one screw and adjustments made to fit the drive belts.
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #302 on: May 07, 2017, 11:03:02 AM »

Fitted all the outer deck support struts to add detail to each deck and also the mounting stays for all the eight antenna mast  along with the HASC support drive system to rotate the HASC units. (which will not be working on this model) Starboard side
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #303 on: May 07, 2017, 11:04:45 AM »

Port side
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radiojoe

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #304 on: May 07, 2017, 03:17:15 PM »


Nice going Paul, getting a fair bit done now and still the summer to come.  :-))


Joe
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #305 on: May 07, 2017, 03:37:42 PM »

Yes Joe, catching up on the period when the weather would not allow me to remove the trailer tent and work on the hull.  She is about to get her first top coat of her main colour and the smaller details such as netting and storage areas can be done once the landing deck has been installed.   Still have to work out how to get the hanger deck lifts cut out and installed with a view to showing the inside of the hanger deck when on display.  Also the main flight deck centre section also need to be cut out for access or I may screw the whole flight deck down, not sure yet.
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radiojoe

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #306 on: May 07, 2017, 04:06:35 PM »


Have you thought about having removable sections of deck replaced with thin Perspex sections for when on display, just a thought ok2


Joe
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #307 on: May 07, 2017, 08:23:58 PM »

Firstly:

Cripes, she was more patch than plate looking at her bomb damage in the photo. No wonder the images were withheld. It shows how much damage they could take. I pity any crewmen down there working  :((

Secondly, the detailing is going on lovely.
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #308 on: May 10, 2017, 12:00:13 PM »

Problem has now occurred when applying the top section of the hull with paint.  I found after removing the masking tape, the styrene section of the armoured plating;  the primer is not bonding to it.  Every time I tried to patch, the pulled off section more comes away only larger areas each time.  To me it looks like the styrene section is at fault.  The whole hull was primed with the same primer and no problems with any other area other than the styrene sections.  It is affecting all three paint areas above and below the water line. I am using a low tack masking tape, but for some reason the primer will not bond to it. 


Can any one point me in the correct direction as to what I have done wrong.   
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radiojoe

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #309 on: May 10, 2017, 03:24:01 PM »


Hi Paul, I've always use Halfords grey primer with no problems even on styrene, I hesitate to state the obvious but was the surface of the styrene keyed up, if so, is it some sort of contamination on the surface,  hope you get it sorted.   {:-{


Joe
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #310 on: May 10, 2017, 03:36:42 PM »

Hi Joe,
I too have used the same primer, and if you note from my earlier pictures you will see the whole hull fully primed last year, with no problem of bonding.  When I painted the under side of the hull the styrene was ok and took the top coat of red which is also a red primer with no problem.  Masked off the underside and pained the waterline with black mat paint, no problem.   Then masked off the water line to paint the top of the hull and allowed to dry over 24 hours during the warm spell we had.  Removed the masking tape and the water line came away in places.  Masked off and painted the affected area. When removing the tape again larges areas as on the photo came away.  I am lost.  I did rub down the styrene with wet and dry when rubbing down the hull.  I am at a loss here.   Looks Like I will have to remove all the paint from the styrene sections.  Wash with clear soap and then rub down again and mask off the areas and repaint.  Was hoping to put the hull on display in the next few weeks and put her in the water.
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #311 on: May 10, 2017, 03:54:32 PM »

That is so sad Paul.  She was looking so fantastic.

You did say styrene, so not sure if this is relevant.  But with fibre glass hulls I have been advised to degrease the hull with mild soapy water, and gently abrade the surface with a fine scourer or very fine grit paper to key the surface before painting.  I did omit to do that on one build and had some paint come off with the masking tape.  Maybe if you cleaned and keyed-in the affected areas the paint will adhere better.

Just a thought.
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #312 on: May 10, 2017, 04:05:13 PM »

Hi Bob,


Thanks for the advice, and the compliment, the hull is all wood and then covered in fiber cloth.  There are two sections of full length styrene bonded to the hull to represent the armored plating for anti torpedo protection.  This was keyed and primed last year.  then the top coat put on this year.  I can only assume that the cold winter has caused the paint to harden and release from the styrene.
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #313 on: May 10, 2017, 04:21:59 PM »

Paul.  I have been keeping up with your build construction from the beginning.  It has been an impressive step by step build sequence.  I don't know what to say, other than perhaps the mixture of materials could have been upset by temperature as you say.

Good luck.  Hope you can repair it.  (I know you will  :-)))
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John W E

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #314 on: May 10, 2017, 04:59:54 PM »

hi ya Paul

Where did you acquire the Styrene from? that you used on the hull.  Did it come from the same source as the rest which you have been using on the other parts of your constructions.   

The reason I am asking is a while ago I was given from Styrene (which was surplus to requirements from the industry I worked in :-)  )    This particular Styrene was used for making signs up - one side of the surface of the Styrene had a waxy feel to it - even if you rubbed it down with wet n dry it still had this 'waxy feel' to it.

It would glue okay with Humbrol Polystyrene Glue but you couldn't get a very good painting surface on it - and - if you used Acrylic paint on it - the paint used to 'pool' into little blobs.  I wonder if you have managed to come across some similar styrene?

What happens if you paint a bit of liquid poly over the surface, allow it to dry, will the paint stick to it then?

Just a thought :-)

John
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Geoff

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #315 on: May 10, 2017, 05:11:00 PM »

As a thought purchase the same paint again. Rarely sometimes the top coat can react with the undercoat even though its compatible leading to instability and paint lift off. No idea why something to do with the batches perhaps.

My money is on some contamination of the original surface which meant the undercoat just didn't adhere as well as it should. Sometimes even the natural grease on your fingers can cause this - it could also have just been a bad batch of paint.

Very frustrating for you

Good luck

Geoff
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #316 on: May 10, 2017, 05:27:21 PM »

Hi John,


I had purchased the sheets of styrene (4 ft by 3 ft) from a company that use the same product to make its kits from.  So I know its good stuff and is used in the making of models.  The paint would go on with no problem and I feel this has something to do with the paint.  I have been advised to use a primer that is used on plastics as this contains Zylene to eat into the surface. So as my top coat is a plastic primer made for plastic I will rub down the effective area for the top half of the hull on this section of styrene and see if it bonds without peeling off.  If it does then I will clean off the underside section and prime with the same primer and then coat with the red primer.  If all goes well will then hand paint the water line in mat black by hand.  Once complete with coat by with satin lacquer to seal the paint work.
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #317 on: May 10, 2017, 05:30:52 PM »

Hi Geoff


I have used two different batches of the same base primer, so that could be the fact, but the main sections of the hull not covered with the styrene has painted ok and no problems.  So I am going with the fault being the styrene and maybe it needs a different primer.  Will await the test I am running to see if it works.
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Korp1010

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #318 on: May 10, 2017, 06:25:03 PM »

Very much doubt this is the reason but more of an observation as I assume your using the green Frog tape in the picture when you say low tack? Personally I find this still too tacky for applying straight to model paint and always use the yellow Frog tape which is the same but really is low tack as it's meant for freshly plastered walls so may be worth a try.
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #319 on: May 10, 2017, 08:55:37 PM »

Hi Korp,


Yes I am using Frog tape and before that simple masking tape. The later weeped paint and was recommended to use Frog tape, but was not told any colour.  It worked well on the main section of the hull but not on the Styrene.  The paint came off in one go pulling the gray primer and the red primer off in one clear pull.  So will try the styrene primer and see how it goes.  Thanks for the information thow.
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Capt Podge

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #320 on: May 10, 2017, 09:40:15 PM »

Hi Paul. Sometimes, when you purchase plastic sheet, there is one side (the shiny side) that has a very fine film of clear plastic attached to it, designed to protect the surface from scratches. This stuff can be very hard to see and needs a bit of patience to find a corner to get a hold of, in order to remove it in one go. Sounds daft but it's just a possibility.

With regard to masking tape, when you have finished applying the last coat of paint, it is advisable to remove the tape after about 20 - 30 minutes i.e. while the paint is still "going off". Leaving it for 24 hrs would risk pulling the dried paint off (been there, done that). Also, when removing the masking tape, pull it back against itself. This also helps prevent unwanted paint removal.

Hope this helps in some way.

Regards,

Ray.
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #321 on: May 11, 2017, 05:30:07 PM »

Have done the first side and all went well.  Got hold of some yellow coloured frog tape, and used the other (Green) to pull off the old paint.  Cleaned the who sheet, rub down with 600 wet and dry and then cleaned off with Meth.  Now working on the other side and should be finished off on Friday.  If so will then post new photo with her in her full coat of paint ready for the satin lacquer to be applied.  This should help keep the paint safe from scratches.
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #322 on: May 11, 2017, 06:08:31 PM »

You are being very thorough in your treatment of the damaged paint areas.   :-))

In my view, using satin varnish is more about protecting matt painted surfaces from dirt, finger marks, dirty pond water and rain, then protecting from scratches.  Matt painted areas can be hard to keep clean after the ravages of outdoors usage.  Satin varnish is both hard and easy to wipe clean.
A couple of very thin sprayed coats does the job and still keeps a semi matt finish.
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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #323 on: May 12, 2017, 09:18:18 AM »

With my models I always paint them in matt paints and only use a satin or matt varnish on the underwater section. With first sailings of ones pride and joy one is very nervous about any bumps or scratches but in reality its inevitable.

There is always a misjudgement or someone always looses control or looses attention and with a large model you just can't turn and get out of the way.

When the inevitable happens I just mask off a square panel and repaint the effected area. Yes the shade is often a little different and you can see the edge marks but this adds to realism and after a few weeks the paint typically dulls down the same.

For cleaning I use baby wipes, they are really excellent and remove any mess easily.

Cheers

Geoff
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #324 on: May 14, 2017, 03:55:51 PM »

All repair work completed and she has been kitted out with some of the detail which will be fully installed later.  I now have to kit out all the minor decks and install them in position. once done the main flight deck and hangar deck will be worked on to install.
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