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Author Topic: A better gun sound?  (Read 2861 times)

tonyH

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A better gun sound?
« on: June 04, 2014, 06:42:34 PM »

I'm the first to admit that I know nought about electronics, but I've been contemplating gunfire effect using a camera flash unit as a possible starting point.
That said, the sound of the crack just seems , well, wrong for a battleship for example.
Is it feasible, therefore, for the sound to be picked up, modified/processed and then expelled through an amp/speaker in a simple way in real time?
I'm assuming that each gun will need a mike but there would only be one processing 'module' and a central amp/speaker.
I'd also assume that the system could augment even a pyro system?
I'm only considering big guns on capital ships but a big/deep noise along with the flash could be fun. All that I'd need then is the smoke and I'm working on that.

Thanks

TonyH
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malcolmfrary

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Re: A better gun sound?
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2014, 07:11:55 PM »

A big deep noise needs a big heavy speaker and an amp to match, otherwise it invariably sounds like somebody clearing their throat.  Trying to do it non electronically, you just run into the fact that a small source gives a small sound.  This is all in accordance with the laws of physics. 
Not a gun, but the same rules apply, if you make a 1:400 scale model of a ships horn as a pipe driven by compressed air (say, QE2 for instance), what was a booming roar audible for miles would become audible only to passing dogs, so we tend to cheat a bit with sound.
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tonyH

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Re: A better gun sound?
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2014, 08:29:58 PM »

Thanks Malcolm and I acknowledge that the volume is a fundamental problem but I get the impression that the frequency range is more so.
I used to work in the rock music business; way before even amplifiers went up to 11.
I've also worked mixer desks for both music and theatre and what I'm trying to achieve is the use of a relatively high frequency initial gun-flash/bang as a trigger and mix/add/modify to a wider band via an amp. The volume is not the critical bit, but since I'm considering capital ships with a weight of 30lbs or so there's a fair amount of spare displacement for 'stuff'.

There must be a better way %)

Tony
 
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dreadnought72

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Re: A better gun sound?
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2014, 09:31:41 PM »

Surely you'd be better off with an mp3 bbbboooooooommm synched to your muzzle flash? Run it through the biggest speaker you could nail into the boat, and use the hull as a soundbox?

Andy
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Rottweiler

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Re: A better gun sound?
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2014, 11:56:33 PM »

Im Trying to do exactly the same myself and was thinking of using comonets from a scale model tank,but apparently the various sounds cannot be separated,so would be next to useless.Cornwall model boats do  16inch gun sound and a flash unit for the barrel glow.not 100% correct,but worth a look,but not that cheap. I have plenty of room for speakers,my HMS RAMILLIES,takes around 45 pounds of ballast!
Mick F
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NFMike

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Re: A better gun sound?
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2014, 11:58:01 PM »

There is something else could be done with an electronic sound, which is to delay it slightly after the visual cue so as to simulate the scale distance between the viewers and the ship.

Of course you'd need to vary that time with how far away it is.

malcolmfrary

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Re: A better gun sound?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2014, 09:48:03 AM »

Surely you'd be better off with an mp3 bbbboooooooommm synched to your muzzle flash? Run it through the biggest speaker you could nail into the boat, and use the hull as a soundbox?

Andy
If its always going to be a broadside, an MP3 of the broadside triggered by the first flash, have the first flash trigger the second, and so forth.  Exact sync of light and sound should not be an issue unless its being filmed in hi-def for slo-mo playback.  To get the initial sharp crack, it would probably need a tweeter added, speakers capable of the throaty rumble at the volume that satisfies are rarely capable of dealing with the sudden edge. 
The cloud of smoke is something else, I did read in a mag many years ago of a setup with a smoke unit, a fan pressurizing it, and a sort of piped distributor to cause a row of guns to smoke in sequence.  I remember blinking and shaking my head and moving on.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: A better gun sound?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2014, 11:56:28 AM »


I once heard a very impressive gun sound from one of those Tamiya tanks....

http://youtu.be/ovxU6l_ZDvU
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Rottweiler

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Re: A better gun sound?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2014, 01:06:59 PM »

Martin,wake up matey lol.I have already mentioned the tank sound,but it appears the other sounds cannot be separated(machine gun,tank track noises etc)
Mick F
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tonyH

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Re: A better gun sound?
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2014, 01:08:17 PM »

There seems to be a need for something.
 
Two of the criteria were, to my way of thinking anyway, to have the option of single gun or broadside and also to have the crack...BOOOOOM effect.
 
It seems to me to be the case that if each gun had the camera flash unit (To give the flash and the crack bit of the sound) and a mike wired to a central processor which would then add the modified BOOM through a central amp/speaker, then there would be the miniscule required delay and the system would be independent of how many guns were fired, each gun generating its own processable sound into the common processor. If this is feasible then it wouldn't matter if X turret is slightly behind B turret, there would be no interdependence.
 
All I need now is a small black box that will modify the crack sound........ {:-{
 
Tony O0 
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: A better gun sound?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2014, 01:15:00 PM »

Martin,wake up matey lol.I have already mentioned the tank sound,but it appears the other sounds cannot be separated(machine gun,tank track noises etc)
Mick F

the video seems to show them separately controlled...   {:-{

http://youtu.be/ovxU6l_ZDvU?t=55s
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dreadnought72

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Re: A better gun sound?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2014, 01:31:19 PM »

There is something else could be done with an electronic sound, which is to delay it slightly after the visual cue so as to simulate the scale distance between the viewers and the ship.

Of course you'd need to vary that time with how far away it is.

If I had an aunt, she'd be giddy. And probably in need of a small glass of sherry.  %)

I have a microchip here: an MPU 6050. It cost about 3 and is currently plugged into an Arduino for secret research purposes*.

The chip is a self-contained, solid-state inertial measuring unit. If put in a boat and switched on at the lakeside, you could sail around literally all day and - by integrating the accelerations & rotations - calculate by dead reckoning exactly how far the vessel is from you.

The speed of sound at 1/72 scale is 4.7 metres per second. So, if the boat's 30 metres away, delay the sound by 6.3 seconds...  :-))

All do-able.

Andy

*secret research purposes? Prepare to be at least a little impressed. I'm coding at the moment, early results look good, but the possibilities are quite extraordinary.
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tonyH

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Re: A better gun sound?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2014, 09:57:45 PM »

Surely the distance/delay is a bit of a red herring?

Can you imagine the fun at Mayhem 2015, when several pre-dreadnoughts are banging away with a delay from the other side of the pond of 3-4 seconds?
Relativity it 'aint ok2

The object of the question is to modify or to the lower frequency range of a real, spark generated, sound with perhaps a minimal delay in the cause of verisim {:-{ ilitude and then blast out those lower registers to great and good effect.

AAAAAaaaaaaarrrrrggggghh!! My head hurts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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hmsantrim

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Re: A better gun sound?
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2014, 04:40:10 AM »

Hi Tony.
             maybe you need something like this. {-)
               Frank
             http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0Cn-btAkeI
         
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tonyH

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Re: A better gun sound?
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2014, 08:58:32 AM »

Nah.... Anyone can do that %%

Tony
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