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Author Topic: Shoehorn into a Schaarhorn - set up help please  (Read 3598 times)

Clive

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Shoehorn into a Schaarhorn - set up help please
« on: June 17, 2014, 04:38:14 PM »

 Hello, I've got to the options below based on various recommendation for my set up but still have a couple of questions that might have me looking rather embarrassed. The thing Iím not sure about is that many many diagrams and suggestions place a twin controller/mixer in to operate the motors. Now I happen to have a pair of Mtroniks 20amp speed controllers in ďthe boxĒ and felt that the mixing could be done by the radio set Ė does anyone else use this? Also though, not sure if the 20amp controllers shouldnít be 30 amp to be on the safe side or not? Sorry the image isnít up to Actions standards which are really great IMHO.  Any thoughts on the rest of the diagram and the switching/fuses needed would all be very much welcome.CheersClive
 
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Netleyned

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Re: Shoehorn into a Schaarhorn - set up help please
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2014, 04:57:13 PM »

Everything seems OK with mixing from the Tx
Scale speed should be rather stately as opposed
to some tugs and trawlers you see speeding
round the lake

Ned
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Clive

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Re: Shoehorn into a Schaarhorn - set up help please
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2014, 05:11:13 PM »

Thanks Ned, this is the kind of pace I'm after https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLbjQfjF5tE but I want to be able to get out of trouble if necessary. I had thought of using 2.5:1 motors if the 6:1 's would be too slow.
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Liverbudgie

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Re: Shoehorn into a Schaarhorn - set up help please
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2014, 07:51:21 PM »

I take it that you are aware that  you have to be very careful over weight in this model in fact, it is critical, if you want her to stay upright even in a flat calm.  In essence, you have to keep everything thing as low down and as light as possible, if you have not already done so remove the lump of lead on top of the funnel and make a lighter version in resin say.  I also doubt if you would be able to fit two batteries together with all the other items you mention and then float her at anything like the correct water line

I have a 1/25th version on the slip at present. This is the smallest scale I could contemplate to be able to include all the fittings while being able to sail in anything like normal conditions.

LB
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Clive

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Re: Shoehorn into a Schaarhorn - set up help please
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2014, 08:19:35 PM »

Hi LB
Yes I, m aware of the weight problem,  I haven't actually purchased anything yet, just sharing thoughts. I, was going to add 2kg down against the keel as per the instructions, if I need to loose a lot of weight I was going to go lipo batts as the lead acid are 2kg each. Really would like to hear what other people building this kit have done. I am however prepared to experiment.
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derekwarner

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Re: Shoehorn into a Schaarhorn - set up help please
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2014, 11:25:28 PM »

wb....no offers of help with the components ;) but would just like to acknowledge the Schaarhorn has beautiful older style lines  :-))....... & much nicer than that TUPPERWARE cruiser passing her at 4:16 minutes......

Good luck with your build & please post some images as you progress ....Derek
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Clive

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Re: Shoehorn into a Schaarhorn - set up help please
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2014, 08:57:49 AM »

 Hi Derek
 
 I do agree it's a lovely yacht/survey vessel O0 and so I'm prepared to work at getting the options in and keeping it "sailable". Iíve got the kit but was hoping to hear from others who have built it for more info. Iíve found mountains of info on the real vessel Ė donít want to start a build thread until I have a good idea about how I will tackle the options though. The Caldercraft instructions are unfortunately up to their usually poor standard, I hope to create a new set for future builders and put them on line.

I bought a back issue of MMI June 2011 which has a very nice Schaarhorn review - renamed True World, unfortunately no mention of the actual running gear was made, I'll try to contact the author but I don't suppose any one here might know the boat? American model boaters?

Cheers :-))
Clive
 

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roycv

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Re: Shoehorn into a Schaarhorn - set up help please
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2014, 09:52:51 AM »

Hi nice model boat and the full size boat is really nice as well.  I have seen Schaarhorn at the Hamburg docks. The docks and the Elbe River are very much worth visiting and then there is also the world's largest model railway!!
I had a 3 day 'weekend' there 2 years ago just not long enough.

As to the model.

I have a setup with 45 mm dia a 4 blade prop driven direct by a 555 motor (Motors Direct) 7.2 volt battery (motor stays cool) about 1.5 amps at full power, so just about 11 watts.  Boat (cargo / ferry) is 32 inches loa and weighs about 8 pounds.
I would think your 2.5 : 1 reduction motor on 6 volts or 7.2 volts, as a pair of motors would go fine in Schaarhorn.
If there is not enough power then a small increase in voltage would solve it, but you should be alright on 6 volts.

kind regards Roy

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Clive

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Re: Shoehorn into a Schaarhorn - set up help please
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2014, 10:16:11 AM »

Cheers roy, just the kind of info I'm after :-)) . I may try the 555 motors as I'm concerned that the geared motors will be noisy, as I'm fitting steam sound I don't want too much extra noise.
Regards
Clive
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Liverbudgie

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Re: Shoehorn into a Schaarhorn - set up help please
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2014, 11:14:28 AM »

Why do you want to fit "steam sound" when the actual ship is silent?

I doubt if there are many examples of this kit about, which is why there have been few replies with the information that you want. As for reviews, Alan Miller did one in Model Boats when the kit was first released some twenty years ago.

LB
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roycv

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Re: Shoehorn into a Schaarhorn - set up help please
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2014, 11:16:23 AM »

Hi Clive I think the 555 motors are about £11 and he used to give a discount for buying 2.  Should you have something like a 540 size motor that is rated for 24 / 30  volts then running them direct on 6 or 7 volts is a good efficient (silent) option.

Glynn Guest advocates using a standard 540 and running them on 2 volts only, which would work well for your boat.  Then using 'mechanical' speed controllers, i.e. a resistive controller operated by a servo, still a cheap option.

As you can see my suggestion of a 24 volt motor being operated at 1/4 voltage is much the same and it is very quiet but has the advantage of using a standard  ESC.

As far as lubricating / sealing the prop tube I use the Deans Marine mixture of 1 part of each of vaseline WD40 and 3 in 1 lubricating oil.  Stirred up together it still looks a stiff mixture but has virtually no drag on the prop shaft.  It can be inserted with a small syringe up the shaft and then push the prop shaft in and make sure you catch what comes out the other end!

best regards Roy
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Clive

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Re: Shoehorn into a Schaarhorn - set up help please
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2014, 11:32:21 AM »

Sound :-) , I plan to use a sound track from on board the boat of the various noises, some engine sound but also crew announcements etc, and of course the steam whistle - currently working on a system to eject "steam" from the whistle synchronised with the sound - this comes from my time working with Lionel and MTH O gauge locomotives that can emit great quantities of smoke on demand. Also see the KM1 model locomotives here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W556ur3R3B4  :} Due to scale the units are very small compared to a model boat and therefore not out of the question. Again, if any one has already achieved this I would love to hear from them.

Thank you for the comments, whatever they are they help to eliminate as well as add to my plans.

Best regards
Clive
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Clive

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Re: Shoehorn into a Schaarhorn - set up help please
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2014, 10:21:00 AM »

 Good morning all :}
 Just to keep this thread up to date before I move to a build, I've had a long think about LB's words concerning weight {:-{ . This has definitely sent me off in the right direction :-)) , following further research it turns out that itís all down to keeping the C of G as low as possible; the ship actually requires quite a bit of extra weight for ballast but as I say it must be LOW LOW DOWN.
Step one, the foggy unit I wanted was too high, not just for the CofG but also to get under the limited height to the deck, I did contact Mark at MMB to see if a custom built model might be possible but my 50mm high allowance was just too low, Mark kindly explained why Ė very helpful by the way.  So change to smoke fluid unit from Oz, this unit is only 30mm high and smokes like a ďgoodenĒ, have a look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5wJiYQcTFE, this is the unit I have chosen with the speed controller adapted to work in reverse Ė note, Iíll use plastic extension tube to keep weight low.
Next sound, I now many people donít like them >>:-( but I do like the Graupner SoundSwitch version 2 O0 , I have one here and Iíve been playing with the set up on the PC and a lot of fun itís been, by the way it does come with full English instructions. It will need an amp, again the Graupner unit is designed for it so although not cheap it does what I want and Iíve just sold some R/C Tamiya trucks and cars on Ebygum to raise the necessary pennies. Also not all know this but the SoundSwitch also has 7 switching outputs to run lights, moving parts etc. The basic unit of course has the engine sounds plus up to 16 other sounds available Ė itís 4 channels so you can have engine plus 3 more sounds running all at the same time.
I also wrote to JoTiKa about the weight issues as I wanted to use lead acid batteries and had a great response this morning :} explaining that itís not the weight of these thatís the problem but it does raise the CofG.
This from John Wright:
"The weight put into the Scharhorn is not critical however the centre of gravity is. You should put in the lead at keel level as per the instructions. Lead Acid batteries because of the size raise the CofG too high. NiMi or lipo batteries should be used to get the CofG as low as possible. Once the battery, motors and radio system are installed you can then add any necessary weight to make the model as stable as possible. Our model took an additional 2.5kg to take it to the waterline."
Many thanks to John Ė Iím now looking for a 12V pack, either NiMh or Lipo Ė Iíve not used Lipoís before so Iíll need to do some more research.
 
Cheers all :-))
Clive
 
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Clive

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Re: Shoehorn into a Schaarhorn - set up help please
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2014, 10:29:02 AM »

P.S.
Have created 3D models of the Funnel cap and vents, sent the files to be printed, I'll show pics and more info when they come in, hopefully this week :-))
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Clive

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Re: Shoehorn into a Schaarhorn - set up help please
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2014, 09:07:34 AM »

 Hi all,
 
 Well the 3D printed pieces came in the other day :-)) , little bit of cleaning to do but very pleased with the result, they came from UK 3D (http://uk-3d.com/) which I found easy to use - you load your .stl file and it gives you an instant quote for the parts - I then paid for the items and they arrived exactly on schedule. Also priced on volume of plastic used rather than overall height x width x depth approach so youíre not paying for voids in hollow parts.
I'll clean these up a little and put them aside. Then I think Iíll start the model ďproperĒ in a new thread.
Cheers all
Clive
 
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