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Author Topic: Supermarket Fuel  (Read 20757 times)

F4TCT

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Supermarket Fuel
« on: July 07, 2014, 06:39:19 PM »

Hi,


Has anyone ever had issues with their car having used supermarket fuel?


I have a 3.0 v6 diesel Audi A4 and religiously fill up at Morrisons and over a week ago, my car basically ground to a halt.


It was recovered to audi and they have found a catastrophic failure of the high pressure fuel system, and the entire system is contaminated with metal swarf from the pump. Audi said that this can only be caused by :


fuel does not meet BS EN 590 (too much bio in it for example)
there is water and/or unleaded mixed in
there are other contaminants - general filth and grime.


My partners grandad's IX35's filter was blocked with a waxy substance - the reason was the bad quality of fuel - again he used morrison's. Speaking to others, they have mentioned issues with other supermarkets, not just morrisons (to get the liable issue out of the way).


So yeah fairly annoyed, 10,000 repair bill  <:(


Ive emailed their insurance team and awaiting a response.


Dan
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U-33

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2014, 06:41:32 PM »

10,000 repair bill...ouch.


Rich
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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2014, 06:53:53 PM »

The only thing I have ever had is a Vauxhall Vectra not appearing to have the same power after filling up at a supermarket. Saying that I always use a supermarket for fuel due to the cost difference against the big boys.

Brian
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Jerry C

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2014, 07:03:13 PM »

Sounds like Audi speak utter twaddle. Of course they're going to blame the fuel.  Are their fuel filters not working. Get the AA in and a lawyer. They'll soon back down. are there loads of cars around morrissons with fuel problems? I doubt it. You should see some of the fuel foisted on me around the world. We always take our own samples. We might use a few more filters but that's what they're for.
Don't let them get away with it.  Swarf in the pump is bad production or faulty gear. 
Jerry.

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2014, 07:21:27 PM »

 >>:-( Sounds like blocked filter or dodgy pump unlikely to be fuel,supermarkets buy fuel on open market just like everybody else and oil companies have good quality control,although modern low carbon diesel can wax if left in the tank for a long time(8 months or more) this because of the higher content of bio,all in all I think your fault lies with the car's fuel system and not the fuel,by the way I have used supermarket diesel since they have been selling it and had no problems,  Ray. <*<
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bikerdude999

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2014, 07:22:57 PM »

Yes I notice a difference between supermarket fuel and BP, I get 5mpg more from BP. I personally wouldn't be believing Audi about the pump failure, what year is it? Could just be old and worn, or faulty manufacturing. Could buy 4 more of my cars for that repair bill!!!
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Neil

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2014, 07:36:42 PM »

I wouldn't think it Morrisons........but the bulk wholesaler...........

I use Morrisons, Tesco and Asda for my fuel depending on who is cheapest.............and then a couple of weeks ago I had problems with my diesel "misfiring"

Not something that a diesel will do............but it just felt like fuel starvation like on one of my old MG's that I have suffered with over the years....

syptoms like vaporisation in the carbs or the plugs dirty....everything that I had always grown acoustomed to on a petrol car..............and so booked it in to my fiat agent..........but before they could fit it in, I virtually run the full tank of fuel down to the red line.....had bought this from a road side garage ( not my usual, somewhere down Liverpool way.

Once full of good old Morrisons fuel, the car picked up and stopped doing it........

anyway it was booked in for a looking at and diagnostic tests......so took it.

They ran it through the tests.......took the filters off which contain sensors and all sorts of other tests............and came up with Fuel Contamination.............on the tank of fuel I had bought from the road side garage...................so, baring in mind that they all use the same bulk sellers at the refineries..........it's just the luck of the draw...............

I've been motoring since I was 16 and have only ever experienced this the once...............so it's just down to a bit of bad luck, and not Morrisons or any other supermarket station in my mind.
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F4TCT

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2014, 07:52:38 PM »

I understand what you mean about the potential of it being a dodgy pump etc, however why has it only happened now?


It clearly states that the car cannot run on bio diesel, however i have read threads online where supermarkets are adding more and more bio and other additives to 'water' the fuel down to make even more money...


I just dont know where im going to turn here to be honest. The car brand new 4 years ago was 42k and today its worth probably 20k. (its quite a rare spec so maybe a tiny but more).


Spoke to my own insurance company and they said they might not even pay out at all if its morrisons issue, although I can see my premium being 10,500 next year instead of the normal 500. They have a habbit of adding costs on.


I can only go off what audi say, they know a lot more about tolerances of their parts than most do.


Somethings amiss somewhere....


Dan
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sparkey

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2014, 07:53:55 PM »

 ;)  Before I retired I was a maintenance manager in a large London prison and part of my job was testing the two 750KVA generators on load,we used to do this at weekends,one day I was doing this when the generators stated missing and I had to abort this as they were spluttering,on the Monday I called in the company that maintained the sets and the engineer found that there was a lot of water in the diesel as the sets were only two years old, I can only assume that the water came with the fuel delivery such is life,Ray. O0   
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mrturbo553

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2014, 08:46:26 PM »

Dan just an idea but contact any taxi spots in town ,check with them if any of their drivers/ cars are having any problems ( as they will probably use more fuel than most ) Get your own fuel tested independently .
Aid
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F4TCT

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2014, 08:48:43 PM »

Good point.


what i forgot to mention is that the day i normally fill up (monday) the station was closed for no apparent reason. I returned the next day and it was open. thats the only fuel its had in it.


Dan
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gingyer

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2014, 09:35:59 PM »

Yeah we had the same issues at work
There is a higher level of bio stuff and additives in supermarket and also cheap fuel from shell/ esso
Some of our vehicles we clogging up and we were told to avoid them. My van was ok but the bosses A5 needed the quality fuel
If you check the BS EN numbers in the hand book of your car you will notice that they recommend that
You buy the dearer stuff for running your car.
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F4TCT

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2014, 09:39:12 PM »

Yeah, hindsight an all  >>:-(


See i wonder if the damage to the pump could have been caused by trying to start the car without fuel in it. The return pipe was either full or empty... It was hard to tell without taking it off...


Dan
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dreadnought72

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2014, 11:01:46 PM »

I am a Team Leader at a major UK supermarket's petrol station. (It's the Orange one, without giving too much away).

The facts are these:

After every delivery we have to take a tank reading to ensure there's no water anywhere in the system. If water is found (and it's not happened in the past six months I've been in charge, and we get a 40t delivery a day), then all the pumps fed by that tank have to be closed off - it's part of our licence conditions.

The stuff we get delivered comes from a refinery that services everyone. Some companies might add extra detergents and gloop for their premium/ultimate brands, but the stuff is basically all the same.

I own a diesel. I run it on supermarket fuel, and I bung in a diesel redex supplement once a month or so to cheer me up.

Audi are, in my opinion, having a laugh. Yes, diesel pumps in cars can shed metal bits - but I strongly doubt that supermarket fuel is the main problem. Otherwise we'd be hearing of thousands of cars in the same boat.

Andy
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F4TCT

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2014, 11:11:13 PM »

Well, id love to have the hindsight of just using shell for the time ive had the car and see if i find myself in the same boat.


I need to get onto audi again and suggest the idea of the pump running with no fuel in it.


Ive heard too many stories to not believe that somethings 'amiss' with supermarket fuel - be it power issues, clogged filters (mines not even 6 months old), or other fuel related things.


I duno, i guess theres no proof. Im the poor guy in the middle.


Morrisons and asda had that thing in 2007 where unleaded in the diesel shafted loads of engines and cost them about 10m. The thing is, i guess people are not like me, use the same station in my little routine. Maybe others do, but those people may not have the same high tolerance type of engines like you may find in a mondeo (them things will run on pig **** given the chance...)


I guess ultimately its my own fault for not using the 'good' stuff.


I'll post an update when I get one, although if i paid for the work and then tried to claim, I could have the car back by friday. Even if morrisons pay, i could be waiting a while for it to be investigated...


Ive put this on the VW Audi forum - as theres some right anoraks on there.


Dan



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Jerry C

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2014, 11:44:27 PM »

While working on a 56000 tonne product we would load a cargo of Various fuels let's say Mobil. Over the course of the voyage the cargo would be bought and sold many times and could end up at any company's forecourt. Gasoline is gasoline and DERV is DERV and complies with a spec no matter who makes or sells it. The type of fuel is marked on the pump.  The type of fuel recommended for your car is found in the owners manual. Put the wrong stuff in your car at your peril. What Dreadnought says is quite right. Supermarkets get fuel on the spot market and probably loss lead as well but their fuel is ok. Audi are trying it on. 
Jerry.

F4TCT

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2014, 11:53:21 PM »

exactly the same as mine - http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5857824-Fuel-delivery-problem-immediate-amp-total-failure-3-0tdi-%93000135-Fuel-Rail-System-Pressure-P0087-012-Too-Low%94&p=79352717&viewfull=1


it seems the min spec for bs en 590 is the min spec for the fuel pump - you decide who to blame, however if theres any trace of water at all, then the fault quickly develops... now who's to blame...


Dan
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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2014, 08:55:44 AM »

Hi
Had my old 21 year old Pug a top engine rebuild and have started using a garage that sells regular diesel. They say it doesn't have any bio in it and the car doesn't stink as much now.

 The water in the diesel light comes on now and again as it did 20 years ago before bio was put in the diesel

There is about 5-7 pence difference between their diesel compared to supermarkets.
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NFMike

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2014, 09:54:55 AM »

however if theres any trace of water at all, then the fault quickly develops... now who's to blame...

Nightmare. Whoever you try to pin it on will just say it might have happened in your fuel tank. At this stage it's almost impossible to prove either way. And it is possible the pump just failed.
I think you may be lucky and get a 'consideration' from Audi, but that's probably going to be it.

As to Shell, about 25 years ago they introduced a new wonder petrol. Withdrew it a bit later when fingers were pointed regarding valve failures.

In answer to the original question we have a diesel Yaris now at C40k miles which mainly runs on Tesco fuel - no problems so far.

F4TCT

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2014, 10:03:15 AM »

I spoke to a few audi places this morning and none of them are aware of issues on the pump itself for the B8 model - mine, there were issues with the B7.


Yes proving it is always the issue, however i can only try my best. Dont know whether to get the car fixed, pay for it myself and then claim?


Dan
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F4TCT

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2014, 10:05:22 AM »

And it seems in 2010 morrisons made a huge change to fuel but withdrew it within the year something to the tune of a 70/30 mix with bio. Certainly out of spec - allegedly the bs en 590 stickers were taken off pumps to legalise it.


Either way, its gone through my engine.


Dan
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dreadnought72

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2014, 10:16:27 AM »

There is about 5-7 pence difference between their diesel compared to supermarkets.

I think that's down to economies of scale as much as anything. The supermarkets can afford to make almost nothing on fuel, since it drives people into the main store, and they naturally have to bulk-buy compared to the smaller independent garages.

Andy
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F4TCT

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2014, 10:18:02 AM »

I bet they are making 20-30p a litre...
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sparkey

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2014, 10:25:00 AM »

I have been talking to a mate of mine this morning about this problem and he said his brother had a well known german make of 4x4, which he used to tow a caravan,the car was only 18 months old when the pump went,he took it to dealership under warranty and he was told that it did  not apply as the diesel he was using was at fault,it cost him 6,500 to fix it so he took the dealership to a small claims court and he was awarded the 6500 plus money for all the time the car was off the road came to quite a bit,might well be worth going done this line and see what happens the bad publicity might shake them into action,Ray.   
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F4TCT

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Re: Supermarket Fuel
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2014, 10:26:40 AM »

good outcome except the warranty ran out a year ago..



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