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Author Topic: Updateing Electronics and RC.  (Read 4134 times)

kiwi96

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Updateing Electronics and RC.
« on: July 13, 2014, 12:54:18 am »

Not sure where to post this so put here.
I have two model ships and am thinking of upgrading my RC to 2.4Ghz. Idea is to have one TX and then be able to use on both ships (not at same time though). Have been looking on here and also noticed that some ESC units are not compatible with 2.4 or have no BEC etc so this can cause a problem. My current TX I use on my Missouri has two independent throttles(both on graduated non return settings) for port and starboard paired motor operation. Would like to keep this but not sure wether on a 2.4 set this can be done. Have also been thinking of putting a motor mixer into the Missouri if twin throttles cannot be worked out. Below are some simple wiring diagrams of what I have installed at present. Any help much appreciated. Am able to replace all/any items as required as once done this time will  not need to be altered for several years to come.
Adrian.
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nick_75au

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Re: Updateing Electronics and RC.
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2014, 02:08:19 am »

All receivers put out basically the same signal to control servos and ESCs, so you only need to change the receiver in the boat. the only difference between a 2.4 Ghz and an AM/FM system is the frequency between the Transmitter and the Receiver.


You can change some internal mechanical components in the transmitter to change the stick operation to your current set up, or you can change the RF board in your current Transmitter to a 2.4 "Hack"module


http://www.modelucak.net/yapimtamir/2_4GHZ_HACK/Assan.pdf


there is no reason to change any of your components other than the Receiver and transmitter, your current ESC, motor, servos will work with a 2.4 ghz radio.


You can bind / pair as many receivers to your TX as you want so you can do what you asked re 2 Rx's

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malcolmfrary

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Re: Updateing Electronics and RC.
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2014, 09:01:10 am »

The only likely problem areas are if the servo connectors are an early pattern and not as thin as the current ones, and when using a hardware mixer in the boat.
Over the years, connectors have got thinner, and the connection area on receivers has become smaller to take advantage.  If modern connector housings are needed, it isn't a big job to change them.
Pre-2.4 radios presented their information to the various output channels one at a time, and most mixers relied on that.  Some modern receivers have some "cleverness" built in.  They gather the information for a complete frame and send it to all of the outputs at the same time.  This confuses the programming in the mixer no end.  The good news is that many multi channel 2.4 transmitters have mixing built in.  If you get one with several model memories, it will likely have that facility anyway.
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Shipmate60

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Re: Updateing Electronics and RC.
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2014, 10:50:13 am »

Sorry but this is just not true.
Some of the cheaper 2.4 sets have a wayward neutral point which is not compatable with some esc's.
Some cheaper 2.4 sets have a failsafe on the throttle on turning on which can interfere with setting up ESC's.
That is why I only use certain ESC's of which the Microgyro is by far the best in my opinion.


Bob
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inertia

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Re: Updateing Electronics and RC.
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2014, 11:58:53 am »

Sorry but this is just not true.
Some of the cheaper 2.4 sets have a wayward neutral point which is not compatable with some esc's.
Some cheaper 2.4 sets have a failsafe on the throttle on turning on which can interfere with setting up ESC's.
And many are of limited range - usually labelled as "park flyer" or something similar. Someone said elsewhere that they are cheap for a reason. That reason is to make them just adequate to operate plastic toys. Corners have to be cut to do that and quality control is usually the first to go. If you pay a lot for a radio you might not always get what you expected but if you pay peanuts then you usually get what you deserve. It never ceases to amaze me that people will spend hundreds of hours and hundreds of pounds making beautiful models, and then buy motors from E-Bay for a couple of quid (with a totally unknown specification) and spend the same amount on a radio set that you could pay for a reasonable pub lunch.
IMHO you should stick with a 'name' brand i.e. Futaba, Spektrum, Hitec, JR and buy it from a source where you are pretty sure you will get some positive response in the event of it going wrong or requiring a service.
Bee back in bonnet for now.
DM
(O, and I have one of those Microgyros FR40 ESCs - they are very impressive).
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Time Bandit

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Re: Updateing Electronics and RC.
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2014, 12:18:22 pm »

Generally there should not be any problem if you switch to 2,4 gHz radio.
They also work without BEC  :}
The main difference to older radios is the method of transferring the data from Tx to Rx. In most cases you donīt find the classic ppm-impulse set in the transmission path (most 2,4gHz transfer the data "digitally") but the output of the reciever is generally the same.
BUT, there may be some differences:
The repetition rate of some 2,4gHz recievers is much faster (~10ms) instead of 20-25ms in the older times. This causes some rudder servo and also some very few ESC to do stupid things. In my experience this is a matter of trial and error, most ESC work but some donīt.
As mentioned above, some new Rx set the impulses for all channels at a time, so you need a much better current supply to the reciever.

I had a lot of different 2G4 radios in my hands, and never found a "wayward" neutral point, they all have 1,5ms in neutral.
Only a few old multiplex radios use 1,6ms as neutral point, but none of them is 2,4 gHz.
Iīm not so sure about the failsave while turning on, I never recognized something like this, but I would not except that this really exists. At startup 1ms to prevent plane esc from starting.



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regards

Tobias

inertia

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Re: Updateing Electronics and RC.
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2014, 05:50:50 pm »

I had a lot of different 2G4 radios in my hands, and never found a "wayward" neutral point, they all have 1,5ms in neutral.
I had a Spektrum Dx5e with a throttle neutral signal value of 1.38mS. The trim wouldn't do enough, so I had to resort to major surgery on the stick unit to get the thing anywhere near 1.5mS. Kim Holland now owns the set and can confirm the surgery bit! I think Bob 'Diesel Do' had a similar problem with a similar set; I seem to remember some correspondence on the matter. I guess you've been lucky.
DM
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Shipmate60

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Re: Updateing Electronics and RC.
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2014, 07:59:15 pm »

Yes Dave you do have a good memory.
It was a DX5, changed to Futaba 40meg and all was well.


Bob
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kiwi96

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Re: Updateing Electronics and RC.
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2014, 09:34:37 pm »

Many thanks for all replies. Well noted and information stored. If I go to single stick operation on Tx and then install an Action P40 mixer to help increase turning ability will this be satisfactory.

Adrian.
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inertia

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Re: Updateing Electronics and RC.
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2014, 11:08:57 pm »

If I go to single stick operation on Tx and then install an Action P40 mixer to help increase turning ability will this be satisfactory.
See Malcom's earlier posting. I know the P94 is not compatible with two or three of the Futaba 2G4 radios but everything else I've tried seems OK. I've not tested the P40 with any of the 'suspect' types and I can't do so now because I don't have any of those radio sets any more. BTW it doesn't matter whether you use two channels on the same stick or two channels on different sticks - the mixer doesn't know any difference.
I can confirm that the Hitec Optic 2G4 radio is compatible with both P40 and P94 mixers, as is the Planet T5. The Planet is a basic park-flyer radio with limited range while the Optic is a 6-channel full-range computer radio and used as my everyday set.
Hope this helps clarify things a bit more for you.
DM
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