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Author Topic: Cyano Accelerator  (Read 6071 times)

mrsgoggins

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Cyano Accelerator
« on: July 11, 2007, 01:48:42 PM »

Does anyone know what it contains or what else can be used?- the little cans I use seem very expensive.
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Guy Bagley

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2007, 03:37:34 PM »

you can buy it in an aerosol and also in a puump head can, i prefer the pump cans,  i buy in bulk so it keeps the ocsts to a minimum....

i get mine from

www.adhesivebrokers.co.uk



( again i have no interest in this business other than a happy customer )
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Doc

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2007, 03:50:08 PM »

mrsgoggins,
You ready?  It's called;
 
"n-Heptane and N,N-dialkytoluidine"

at least that's what it says on this bottle.  Better yet, go here;

http://mercuryadhesives.com/mercuryfaq.htm

They do much better at explaining this 'stuff' than I ever want to be able to do.

A suggestion about those 'itty-bitty' bottles of accelerator.  Buy large bottle(s).  Keep those itty-bitty ones to put the stuff from the big ones in to use on the bench.  Keep the big bottles out of the weather/sun light till needed to refill the itty-bitty ones.  It's a bother, but also makes you more frugal so you don't have to refill those @#$ things as often.  How much cheaper is it?  Depends on how thrifty a shopper you are (not a @#$$ of a lot, but some)!
 - 'Doc

(Me and ol'Einstein have a lot in common!  Age, near sighted, baggy eyes, and more hair than either of us know what to do with.  His was on top, mine's on my face.)
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BobF

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2007, 04:15:48 PM »



Don't know for sure, but my nose tells me that the latest accelerator from my model shop is acetone based.

The old stuff in aerosol form was recalled due to health hazard.

Bob
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ministeve

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2007, 06:49:25 PM »

probably not very good for you but the stuff from star tastes very sweet with a nasty after taste ::)   don't ask why i know that I'm young and stupid he-he






                p.s don't try that at home or shed ;D ;D ;D
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mrsgoggins

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2007, 10:52:35 AM »

Thanks for the responses. I guess I will follow up the bulk buying route in time for our next party although it is too sweet for my taste.

Keith
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2007, 11:07:32 AM »

I've found that some accelerators don't work with some superglues.... or is it just me?
I now stick ( pun intended ) with the same brand Superglue and accelerator to make sure.
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dougal99

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2007, 07:27:50 PM »

Dave Abbott recommends a fine water spray.
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mrsgoggins

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2007, 08:39:54 AM »

I'll give the waterspray a try.
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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2007, 09:12:03 PM »

water works for me in a fine mist ,just remember to use drips and not runs of your favorite supa glue .
daz
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Bryan Young

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2007, 10:31:58 PM »

mrsgoggins,
You ready?  It's called;
 
"n-Heptane and N,N-dialkytoluidine"

at least that's what it says on this bottle.  Better yet, go here;

http://mercuryadhesives.com/mercuryfaq.htm

They do much better at explaining this 'stuff' than I ever want to be able to do.

A suggestion about those 'itty-bitty' bottles of accelerator.  Buy large bottle(s).  Keep those itty-bitty ones to put the stuff from the big ones in to use on the bench.  Keep the big bottles out of the weather/sun light till needed to refill the itty-bitty ones.  It's a bother, but also makes you more frugal so you don't have to refill those @#$ things as often.  How much cheaper is it?  Depends on how thrifty a shopper you are (not a @#$$ of a lot, but some)!
 - 'Doc

(Me and ol'Einstein have a lot in common!  Age, near sighted, baggy eyes, and more hair than either of us know what to do with.  His was on top, mine's on my face.)
I recall that a number of years ago the manufacturers recommended keeping "superglue" in the 'fridge. Does that still apply?
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ministeve

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2007, 11:13:39 PM »

i still keep it in the fridge much to the annoyance of s.w.m.b.o
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dougal99

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2007, 08:36:57 PM »

As a matter of interest how long do you chaps keep cyno (in or out of the fridge). Does it go off? I don't use much and seem to end up with a lot left in a container I can't get it out of. I find that the nozzle seems to clog up after a while and the last lot I bought stuck the cap to the bottle!! ( I should have wiped the nozzle I know)

Views welcome

Doug
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2007, 09:12:49 PM »


Personally I buy the medium sized bottles and usually a good quality brand like ZAP, it just seems to last longer.
I also use a long nozzle instead of the cap ( available from 5 star adhesives ), make sure the end is clear and stick a pin in it to seal it.
I keep it in a cool place but not the fridge any more.... I forget it's there and buy some more! Keep low self or a draw... heat rises.

I also use the the really cheap, thin superglue you get from the pound shop ( 6 for a quid ), great for large areas and utility jobs.

Martin.
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2007, 12:45:37 AM »

Yes it does go off , I allways put the date bought and only buy from places that shift a lot of glue,unfortunately my workshop can get a bit warm ( I have an 8 foot double radiator in it and forget to turn the stat down Plus I need it hot to keep me moving) so any glue does not last long but I spoke to the chap that sells Superglue at some of the shows HAFIXS and he recommended the fridge and said his should last up to five years, I only ever buy small bottles after buying a very  large one at a show and the bottle split a day later before I could use any , It makes a pool about a foot square on a formica top and the smell is enough to knock you out I had to get my wife to go in and clean up . and could not go in there for about two weeks, if it ever happens to you a wallpaper scraper works very well and gets rid of it very well.

Peter
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2007, 09:12:46 AM »

Some spillage! I hate the propensity that epoxy has to make its way out of a not fully screwed down cap and crawl over everything in the vicinity. Sometimes I think it's alive! Takes some getting rid of too.
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kendalboatsman

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2007, 09:59:03 AM »

I seem to use my cyano up within 2 months sometimes less depending on how much time I have spare to build, so expiry not too big an issue for me. I have previously kept a bottle of Roket cyano in the loft for a year and it was still useable once I chipped away the nozzle. I am now using the Javis glue as supplied by Paul of PSS in a build pack I purchased, great stuff but having trouble finding a local (Birmingham, UK) supplier of it.

Clive
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omra85

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2007, 08:26:16 PM »

As long as you keep it cool AND IN THE DARK, it will last ages.
The secret? is to keep the bottle or tube upright and, after use wipe the nozzle then blow into it to clear the glue back down the nozzle into the bottle/tube (you can even try squeezing the sides of the tube opposite to your normal press points, to try and draw air back into the bottle) (superglue does not set unless starved of air).  The same 5gm tube lasts me half a year - obviously I don't use much ;D

Danny
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Gunslinger

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2007, 03:21:39 PM »

Not strictly part of this "Accelerator" thread but still about Cyano glue. If you want to make a REALLY solid butt joins between wood or plastic, clamp the 2 edges together and then run a thin, triangular fillet of Bi-Carbonate of soda down the edge of the join then drip Cyano onto the Bi-carb. You don't need much because it "wicks" very easily. It also generates some heat (an exothermic reaction if my O-level chemistry was correct!) but not enough to be a problem. It's VERY quick, certainly as fast as an accelerator and is rock hard and tends to break the surrounding material before the joint gives way plus it's a LOT cheaper than accelerator.
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SimonO

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2007, 03:17:30 PM »

I've got a small atomiser made by loctite and that is mainly isopropanol alcohol?, this works instantaneously, i used it to simulate weld seams as well as gluing stuff, trace a line of thick superglue over pencil lines and spray it with this stuff, it sets fast and hard within seconds.

Si
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bigH

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2007, 05:24:32 PM »

   Bought a large bottle of cyano (5 star ) at Warwick show 4yrs ago, have used it ever since, coming to the end now.   I leave mine uncapped but make sure the nozzle is clear and it stands in a shaded place in the w/shop.   Never had any trouble and 5 star says it should be good for up to 7 yrs.
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FiveStar Adhesuves

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2007, 07:16:41 PM »

There are a few types of cyano activator, they mostly have similar active ingredients , generaly dissolved on 3 types of solvents, all activators can be used with all cyanos as all CA sets by the same mechanism, of course all manufacturers say to use there one, but all will work, some better than others

solvents in activator, we used to use tricloroethane, it was the best solvent but europe banned it with all CFC`s
Heptane , most common, very toxic , flammable, causes great whitening of cyano on cure loosing a lot of strength
Alcohol, usualy Isopropanol, low toxicity, very flammable, causes a lot of whitening and loss of strength of ca on cure due to absorbing moisture on cure
Acetone, dissolves our active ingredient (why we use it)  low toxicity and flammable

The main active ingredient used industrialy is often a type of alkyl toluidine but these are very toxic and have a strong smell and theres a lot of different ones,some of the alkyl toluidines give a fast set but reduce strength a lot

there are a lot of other ones that can be used and many other ingredients in there as well, its all down to geting the right blend as with anything

We make some based on alkyl toluidines, such as our FasterBlaster(TM) , but our most used is the non whitening activator, this is the only one of its type as we have a patent pending on it. It contains a very low toxicity low odour active ingredient that causes no whitening or loss of strength on cure unlike all other cyano activators patented to date

I wouldnt bother trying to make an activator at home because the toxicity of the ingredients is such that you wouldnt want to, and if you get it wrong you can cause problems with the adhesive at a later date making the adhesive break down and go brittle with age and the ingredients cost a lot especialy in small amounts

Water as an accelerator should be avoided as using it causes an incorect molecular weight polymer to be formed, and excess moisture on cure will cause break down by hydrolosis of the polymer with a short time (maybe about a year), the same can be said of any alkaline powders such as bicarb of soda etc, they should never be used as the CA will break down with age particularly when anywere damp

For storage,  CA should always be cold and dark, as cold and dark as possible, we reccomend the fridge , simply as its a way of us knowing the conditions, in the fridge you will get 7 year life unless you get a lot of contaminents into it
Out of the fridge its hit and miss, all down to the conditions, most people get at least 2 years just on the workbench. if cold in the dark 4 years minimum is normal
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Damien

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2008, 10:31:42 AM »

I started using CA glues in the '70's when the hobby shop i worked for started stocking it. The company rep selling it suggested  1 teaspoon of Baking powder per litre of water be used as a kicker, and I have used this mix ever since.
I use baking powder in much the same way "Gunslinger" uses Bi carb for gap filling, some whitening will occur but not a problem if the job is to be covered with paint.
Damien.
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Damien

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2008, 11:03:30 PM »

A further note i use a perfume atomiser to acheive a micro fine spray mist as not much is needed.
Damien
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StarLocAdhesives/FiveStar

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Re: Cyano Accelerator
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2008, 12:14:09 AM »

The problem with bicarb and substances like that is that it will degrade the glue, it makes the CA glue highly affected by moisture, it will break down rapidly if you use something alkaline or water to cure the CA, Alkaline is far worse than water. The bond may seem ok but it will degrade over time, not realy worth destroying a model when you can just either use no activator or buy an activator

Any company rep suggesting that you use bicarb obviously only worked for a distributor/`manufacturer` in the model trade ,  having absolutely no idea about what they were selling or how it worked

no manufacturer or there rep would ever recomend using bicarb , someone in the model trade....they might well say to use it,  they would not know any better!

then again back in the 70`s most CA was rubbish compared to any with todays chemistry so bonds didnt last long anyway and needed an activator to get a quick set

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