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Author Topic: Another rigging question  (Read 3713 times)

Brian60

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Another rigging question
« on: August 11, 2014, 08:13:04 PM »

Here's a pic of the sailing trawler variant I am building. It's unusal in that it is carrying a second jibsail (called a balloon sail in the book I have) It's unusal in that all the photo's/illustrations that are available of Brixham boats of which a few are still sailing, none of them use this extra sail. My book states it was extra canvas along with a mizzen staysail for use when towing the trawl net. I don't have a problem with this.

My problem with this build is that there is no detail about the main (and mizzen) jackstays. as this is my first scale sail build I am at a loss on how this was rigged. along with that balloon sail, the jacksay was used to allow extra canvas to be hoisted on the topsail/s, in this case for extra speed when running for port. Again non of the existing boats use this rigging.

Can anyone show how this was mounted please, a good description preferably with a diagram of the rigging would be good. It's details like this that set the Humber variant apart from other styles so really I would like to include it.

JerryTodd

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Re: Another rigging question
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2014, 05:13:55 AM »

I'm assuming by jackstay you meant jackyard, as in those spars the tops'ls are attached to?

If so, they are set from on deck.  The haliard is attached via a hitch, like a timber hitch,  the out-haul or sheet runs trough a block out on the gaff and belays, usually, at the boom jaws.  There's a tack line for the bottom corner of the tops'l that makes off at the fife-rail, a deck ring, or the boom jaws.  There's sometimes two tack lines so the foot can be brought over the peak halliard on the other tack; the sail is typically set to windward of the mains'l, so it's downdraft doesn't back-wind the main.

On the other hand, a jackstay is a rod, line, or cable that the sails and some other items are bent (attached) to.  Typicially there's one, or even two on top of the yards, and some times up the back of a mast where the spanker or driver slides up and down on rings instead of on the mast itself, or a spencer mast, with hoops or lacing.  There were sometimes jackstays mounted on booms and gaffs to bend the sail too, but I don't think that was very common.

Brian60

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Re: Another rigging question
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2014, 09:07:26 AM »

Yes thank you Jerry, mixing up my terminology there!

So basically the jackyard is 'floating' in that it is connected to the luff of the sail, but the sail operates as per normal practice for a topsail on these boats, it has no direct connection to the topmast aside from the halyards that control the topsail?

Duncan

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Re: Another rigging question
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2014, 10:33:40 PM »

Hi Brian

I think the two extra sails your reference is referring two are the ones in the dashed outline. The larger foresail would be used instead of the standard foresail for a little extra speed. In the March Sailing Trawler book it is referred to as a "tow foresail".  I think balloon must be a local name for it in your reference. It would be rigged the same except the sheet would go to  a cleat amidships.

The mizzen staysail is just in front of the mizzen mast. The tack would go to an eye or ring bolt on deck. For Master Hand in the book (most detailed sailing trawler), the halyard has a double block attached to an eyebolt above the topping lift eyebolt on the mizzen leading to near the topsail halyard on the mizzen cavil rail. On your plan it looks like this eyebolt is double ended with one for the peak halyard. I can not see how this is possible but on the Grimsby cod smack (plan 2), the required eyebolt is between the two for the peak halyard. With a double block at the mast, it would require a single at the staysail head.

The only photo with both sails set is plate 44. There are a few photos with the tow foresail set especially at regattas. I don't think you would want to be tacking much with the staysail set.

Regards
Duncan
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Brian60

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Re: Another rigging question
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2014, 08:57:52 AM »

Thank you for the input Duncan.

My main reference book is Edgar March's, while trying to fill in the gaps for differences between the craft (humber variant/others) using Holmes, of the Humber. You are correct that March uses the term 'Tow Foresail'

If you read the running rigging section beginning page 303 of March's book, it mentions the jibsail and then the foresail moving aft along the boat. There is no mention of how the sail (balloon sail/tow foresail) was rigged that I mentioned.

But my question was how is the topsail attached to the topmast using the jackyard, neither book covers this detail at all..










JerryTodd

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Re: Another rigging question
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2014, 11:59:25 PM »

The tops'l is laced to the jackyard.  There's normally a hole or cleats (wedge shaped strips, not a belaying to cleat) at either end to fasten and stretch out the sail along the yard, and grommets along the sail's luff to lace it through.

The halliard is attached to the jackyard by a hitch, a timber hitch, or some such knot.  Some jackyards may have had a band, or wolding with an eye in it to attach the halliard, but the smaller the boat, the more likely it was just a hitch.

Brian60

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Re: Another rigging question
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2014, 11:40:39 AM »

Thanks for clearing that up for me Jerry,

a quick search of the internet and I turned this up.......

http://www.animatedknots.com/timber/

so now I can move on with the build and when I reach the topsail I now know how to proceed.

Duncan

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Re: Another rigging question
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2014, 07:53:33 PM »

Hi Brian

I have found a couple of details in the Gaff Rig by  Leather book. He basically agrees with Jerry that the jackyard would have either been attached with a strop or directly to the halliard. He has a diagram of a Topsail Halliard Bend (see attached).  The jackstay was a line which passed through cringles in the luff of the topsail to hold the luff against the topmast. It was used instead of lacing or hoops (see attached).

BTW, what is the Holmes of the Humber book like?

Duncan
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Brian60

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Re: Another rigging question
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2014, 09:38:19 PM »

Holmes of the Humber is basically a set of anecdotes and stories from and about the man himself, all illustrations inside are by him, the book has been 'ghosted' by Tony Watts.

Its a quaint history of what middle/upper class life was like in the late 1800's and across the turn of the century. I didn't know this until I read the book but his family started the Thomas Holmes tannery in Hull (now closed I think) a place where I started my working career as a storekeeper!

The drawings and sketches are wonderful to look at and describes how he was instrumental in forming the Humber Yawl Club, a club that continues to this day.

I have the gaff rig handbook my wife reminded me of this last week, when I made another query in the forum. At the moment I have so much reference material I forget what is where and end up not looking but coming straight here!

JerryTodd

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Re: Another rigging question
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2014, 12:15:38 AM »

Great images, but there's one item that may be misleading - if you follow the tops'l sheet down you see it goes through a block on a leader then down to the deck.  That block is attached by it's leader to the gaff jaws - NOT to the tack of the sail as it might appear.

Duncan

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Re: Another rigging question
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2014, 08:31:53 AM »


 At the moment I have so much reference material I forget what is where

I know the feeling Brian. For instance, the Humber trawler plan at the start of this thread looks familiar but I can't remember where it is from!

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Brian60

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Re: Another rigging question
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2014, 02:03:19 PM »

That is from the Holmes book, along with other craft that were on the Humber at the time, some of them have line drawings if one wanted to scale them up.

Great images, but there's one item that may be misleading - if you follow the tops'l sheet down you see it goes through a block on a leader then down to the deck.  That block is attached by it's leader to the gaff jaws - NOT to the tack of the sail as it might appear.

Thanks for pointing that out Jerry, I looked at that pic several times- I even got my book out and looked up the image, I would have been none the wiser without you mentioning it!

Brian60

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Re: Another rigging question
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2014, 07:39:58 AM »

I've done some fruther reading about this in another book I have managed to pick up.

It seems we are discussing two different sails. The Tow Foresail is not the Balloon Sail. The tow foresail is a much larger replacement for the standard foresail, used for the purpose of towing the trawl warp, where the mainsail is reefed in for better control but maintains speed. It was also used for extra speed during the summer regatta's these boats raced in.

The Balloon sail is the second jibsail flown high and loose, made from a much lighter material than the standard sails. In March's book there is one reference to this and he calls it a Spinnaker. Now I thought spinnaker was a relatively modern term for sails but not so, it goes back many years.

The four photo's all of Provident by the way, taken 80 years ago except the colour one which is recent show the sails. The black and white images show the larger tow foresail in use. As can be seen it extend back past the main mast shrouds the clew being sheeted midships rather than to the across deck horse in front of the mainmast. The colour image is the balloon/spinnaker sail flying high on the bowsprit and attached to the very top of the main topmast following the topmast stay but not being attached to it.

JerryTodd

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Re: Another rigging question
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2014, 12:49:33 PM »

That third heads'l in the last photo with the tanbark sails is commonly called a "flying jib."  The small jib close inboard would normally be the forestays'l, while the middle one would be simply, the jib, although it could be the foretopmaststays'l.  Stays'ls usually ride on the stay they're named for, otherwise they're just a jib.  ;)
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