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Author Topic: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?  (Read 9062 times)

Colin Bishop

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HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« on: August 28, 2014, 07:37:47 pm »

Today HMS Illustrious paid off for the last time after 32 years service. Still serviceable but no longer wanted. At the same time we are seeing reports that Russia is effectively invading Ukraine after annexing Crimea. The Baltic states fear that they are next on the list and are members of the EU and NATO which, should Russia threaten them, we would be bound by treaty to get involved.

In the meantime our armed forces have been run down to desperately low levels on the basis of saving money and  on the assumption that there will be no need for a major military effort in the foreseeable future. History shows that such assumptions are foolhardy to say the least and we, and much of Europe, could be sleepwalking to disaster as President Putin has confirmed his status as an adventurer who is perfectly willing to ignore international law on the basis that he can get away with it. So far he is doing fine and there is no leadership on the part of the West to put a stop to it. The guy is clearly a loose cannon with nuclear capability which is not a good thing!

There is a lot of truth in the old adage that those who ignore history are condemned to re live it and the present generation of politicians appear to be particularly incompetent in that respect. I think there is a very real risk that things could get very serious much more quickly than anyone seems to appreciate and so history will repeat itself once again. Maybe our nuclear subs will come in useful after all despite Alec Salmond's posturings!

Colin
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TheLongBuild

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2014, 08:04:45 pm »

This reminds me of another leader 75 years ago.
can't think who !!!
 

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2014, 08:33:37 pm »

Perhaps the Canadian Lanc could stay a bit longer?

Ned
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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2014, 09:33:51 pm »



        No replies of a Political nature please.


Ken



 
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NFMike

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2014, 11:41:09 pm »


        No replies of a Political nature please.


Ken

Tricky. Pretty much everything leading up to a war is political, so the OP is a bit of a honey trap  %)

Bob K

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2014, 12:22:00 pm »

The day after HMS Illustrious is retired Ukraine applies to join NATO.  MOD forward planning less than 24 hours ?
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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2014, 12:38:50 pm »

That would not be a good thing....but steering away from the short sighted politicians, being led by short sighted civil servants, being influenced by military men with agendas, what hope for the future of Illustrious, post Royal Navy. The Portsmouth bid has just been kicked into touch.. better scrapped or sunk as a reef than rotting away in some backwater?
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TheLongBuild

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2014, 12:43:10 pm »

The day after HMS Illustrious is retired Ukraine applies to join NATO.  MOD forward planning less than 24 hours ?

Quote Taken from

http://dalje.com/en-world/russia-vows-steps-if-georgia-ukraine-join-nato/139527

Russia will take steps aimed at ensuring its interests along its borders," the agencies quoted General Yuri Baluyevsky as saying. "These will not only be military steps, but also steps of a different nature," he said, without giving details.

And I guess the steps taken will not be of a political nature   8)  ;) ;)

Shipmate60

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2014, 01:16:51 pm »

Another great forward thinking plan - NOT!!


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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2014, 03:39:35 pm »

Yes, defence policy and budgeting appears to inhabit a parallel but totally unconnected universe to world events (no matter which lot of politicians are in charge)

Colin
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warspite

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2014, 04:14:30 pm »

Perhaps the Canadian Lanc could stay a bit longer?

Ned

Well we don't have any other dedicated bombers do we, so sending our only one might mean having to 'borrow' the Canadian one when it gets shot down :D

Hey lads get the old biplanes out, we need to press them into service.

brush up those Chelsea pensioner uniforms lads - we're going to war  {-)

Do they have wifi in urals (I think that's spelt correctly), when they conscript the kids they will struggle to get a signal for the drones.
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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2014, 04:41:37 pm »

Lot of work going on the Fairey Swordfish at Yeovilton as we speak 8) 8) 8)


Ned
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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2014, 05:31:32 pm »

  Wasn't it a German politician who said that war was far too serious a matter to be left the generals?
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2014, 05:54:36 pm »

There is a report in today's Times that David Cameron has pledged to bring the second QE carrier into service - how times change!

Colin
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TheLongBuild

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2014, 06:01:38 pm »

  Wasn't it a German politician who said that war was far too serious a matter to be left the generals?

Was the leader of Germany in 1939-1945 a Politician ?.  If so some could say it might have been better to leave the War to the Generals and not the Political Leader at the time ! who thought he knew better.

Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2014, 06:10:53 pm »

What can you expect from a Corporal though....
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TheLongBuild

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2014, 06:21:47 pm »

 %) :}

dodes

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2014, 08:19:02 pm »

I think you have the same problem with the Lusty as the new ones that are still being built, empty flight decks !!, plus she is 30 years old and her capacity if it was possible to fill is very small and limited, she was at best most useful for convoy escort, never a death star!!!!
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McGherkin

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2014, 10:21:52 pm »

I think you have the same problem with the Lusty as the new ones that are still being built, empty flight decks !!, plus she is 30 years old and her capacity if it was possible to fill is very small and limited, she was at best most useful for convoy escort, never a death star!!!!


Yup, this really.

That, and where a ship can go, a submarine can go, and do it completely undetected until it fires a tomahawk and obliterates the target just as effectively.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2014, 10:38:35 pm »

Subs can't normally land Marine land forces though as a helicopter carrier can. Nor can they carry out humanitarian missions.
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McGherkin

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2014, 11:17:43 pm »

Subs can't normally land Marine land forces though as a helicopter carrier can. Nor can they carry out humanitarian missions.

But that's carried out by Bulwark, Albion and Ocean. Humanitarian missions are generally carried out by whatever's in the area, for example Enterprise was used for the Libya extraction.
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Jonty

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2014, 02:47:10 pm »

  Just checked - I knew the quote was pre-WW1, but it was Frenchman, not a German. And I think Clemenceau qualifies as a statesman rather than a mere politician.
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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2014, 08:24:47 pm »

I wonder what  the projected lifespan is for the hull? 40 years, perhaps? This might have something to do with the decision.

(BTW, we have a 42-year-old destroyer in Halifax which won't return to sea, due to the condition of her hull.)

Tom
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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2014, 10:09:47 pm »

No politicians or civil servant should be aloud in government circles until they have serviced their country in the forces, then perhaps we may make decisions that actual work.
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warspite

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Re: HMS Illustrious - Redundant?
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2014, 09:58:13 am »

Fruedian slip there - as all politicians service there country i.e. screw us  >>:-(, although I agree, only service men and women should be allowed as they then understand the needs for efficiency - with a small portion of those who are true representatives of the electoral.
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