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Author Topic: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build  (Read 128883 times)

david48

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #325 on: December 11, 2016, 03:16:51 pm »

Well as you say nearly there looking good , don't rush the last bit , so you can get into the steam thing  . I can not remember if there were any pit fall when I made my cranes , I put a plastic shimm between the two bottom discs so thy turned easier "O" the accesses ladders are a bit fragile ,that one that fixes to the deck is a bit  venerable . I am a bit like you nearly finished just some fibre optic lights to fit in the door recesses and maybe the bridge I will see . I think I might have to have a rethink on the deck hold down .
Good luck on the new project .
David   
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Mark T

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #326 on: December 11, 2016, 05:33:55 pm »

I couldn't agree more David; there will be no rushing on this build I've put far too much into it.  I am really looking forward though to sailing it for the first time.  I've done away with the ladders in the kit as you are correct they are far to fragile.  I'm using plastic OO gauge railway ladders with are they same size but far more durable.  If you want some of these I'll post them to you  :-))  As for the cranes I'm sure you said that they needed to be lifted a bit to get a good turn on them without hitting other deck items?


Whats up with your deck hold down?  I really liked your mechanism and actually wished that I had gone that way instead of screws.  Is it not holding down correctly?


As for the new build - well I reckon that I might get that started next March but only when this one is complete to my satisfaction


Mark  :-)

david48

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #327 on: December 13, 2016, 08:34:16 am »


Hi Mark
The plan for the deck hold down was to operate it from in between the batteries, then I did not know I would need a speed controller for the stern thruster as well as the bow thruster .The only place it would go was under the deck between the back opening and the front opening ,it just fits there but the cooling fins foul my access  to the slider. I picked up a container that is the same scale from a rail show ,so I am thinking I will use that some how to cover a hole in the deck .All a bit vague yet but ill get there .
I am supposed to be retired and have lots of time , but this time of year busy among pheasants, firewood and helping on a portable saw mill , not a complaint it all brings in pocket money ,as you are well aware  our hobbies do not come cheap.
Thank for getting back .
David
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Peterb 14

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #328 on: December 13, 2016, 08:46:50 pm »

I promised a 'site visit' report on Meijer & Blessing the model shop in Rotterdam. Called in today, it is quite a large store and very well stocked. While they have kits of all levels on all forms of transport (several Billing Boats in stock) they very much concentrate on model railways which is the bulk of their stock. I am not into railway modelling but if anyone was interested in ready-made models of continental trains they would be in their element.


They don't stock Billing Boat fittings but have a very good selection of general components such as extruded  sections, brass wire, tubing and other things such as paints. There is certainly nowhere comparable that I know of in Kent and of course you wouldn't go to Rotterdam to but a pot of paint! But if you find yourself in the area may find it an interesting stop.


Peter
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Mark T

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #329 on: December 13, 2016, 09:35:09 pm »

Hi Mark
The plan for the deck hold down was to operate it from in between the batteries, then I did not know I would need a speed controller for the stern thruster as well as the bow thruster .The only place it would go was under the deck between the back opening and the front opening ,it just fits there but the cooling fins foul my access  to the slider. I picked up a container that is the same scale from a rail show ,so I am thinking I will use that some how to cover a hole in the deck .All a bit vague yet but ill get there .
I am supposed to be retired and have lots of time , but this time of year busy among pheasants, firewood and helping on a portable saw mill , not a complaint it all brings in pocket money ,as you are well aware  our hobbies do not come cheap.
Thank for getting back .
David


Hi David that is a real shame - is there no way that the controller can be installed near the bow and the wires extended to suit?  Either way I'm sure that you will find a solution. If I can help just let me know 👍  Good luck with the pheasants I remember you doing this work last year


Mark

desktoprover

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #330 on: December 26, 2016, 05:51:05 pm »

Hello Mark,
Doing a search on the internet, I fell on your amazing build thread!  This is an amazingly well documented build.  It was a pleasure to look at it  :-))


Sylvain
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Mark T

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #331 on: December 26, 2016, 08:24:53 pm »

Wow thanks Sylvain for your kind comments  :-)   I'll have an update later in the week as the deck cranes are coming along nicely and I've got quite a few pictures of their build

desktoprover

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #332 on: December 26, 2016, 11:37:57 pm »

Wow thanks Sylvain for your kind comments  :-)   I'll have an update later in the week as the deck cranes are coming along nicely and I've got quite a few pictures of their build


I can't wait to see your next update  :-))
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Mark T

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #333 on: December 27, 2016, 05:49:39 pm »

A bit of an update as I've been working on the deck cranes.  First was a nice and easy job of just gluing the crane parts together.





Then I had to solve the issue of how to attach the cranes to the boat.  The instructions tell you to fix the slew ring to the deck posts using a screw which is not a great idea.  The problem is you then have to glue the crane over the screw which gives you no access to the screw should you either want to tighten it or remove the cranes for repairs ir cleaning  {:-{   I found a simple solution by cutting a 22mm straight pipe fitting in two and fixing the slew ring to this.  It allows the cranes to fit quite nicely and allows you to remove them should you need to  :-))











Next it was the brass railings that needed to be made.  Instead of using my normal wood base for soldering I've swapped to vermiculate plate which is great. No smoke in the house and it reflects the heat to making the job far quicker.  I've also started using silver solder; not because these parts are structural I just needed to get used to using it again as its been years since the last time I used it for strong joints.








They actually turned out quite well bearing in mind its only 0.75mm rod











I then made the main hydraulic ram which has pretty much completed the first crane except for the gear wheels








And fitted it looks ok so far - Its just needs paint prep and painting





And I have made a good start on the other crane.  This railing looks so simple but my god this tested me to the limit.  I think that this was the third attempt and its Ok but not brilliant.  I can only admire the work of the builders on here that make the war ships as you do this sort of thing all of the time.





Thats it for now  %%   I'll have the cranes completely finished and painted next time - Thanks for looking Mark  :-)

desktoprover

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #334 on: December 27, 2016, 06:13:18 pm »

Nice job on the crane Mark!  It does look really good on the ship. 


I was wondering what are the advantages of using silver solder?  I've never used silver solder before.  Is it stronger or maybe easier to use?


Thanks........Sylvain
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Mark T

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #335 on: December 27, 2016, 08:13:36 pm »

Silver solder makes an extremely good joint on brass and copper but it does need to be used correctly.  The joints must be polished clean with wire wool as abrasive paper contaminates the joint and stops the solder from flowing.  It melts at around 450 - 600 degrees depending on the type of solder that you use.  I think its safe to say that the brass would break well before the joint if its heated and cleaned correctly.  Soft solder is really easy to use but has very little if any structural strength.  You just need to plan your joints; I am only practising with silver solder as I will be building the mast soon which requires structural integrity other than that i have used soft solder throughout my build.

derekwarner

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #336 on: December 27, 2016, 09:42:17 pm »

as Mark T says....'Soft solder is really easy to use but has very little if any structural strength.  You just need to plan your joints'

So whilst has a bearing on brass model construction, a number of MBM members have shown unbelievably complex scale brass soft soldered examples

Derek
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Derek Warner

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Mark T

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #337 on: December 27, 2016, 10:15:32 pm »

Yes Derek I could not agree more  :-))   Soft solder is great for interconnecting joints that together make the whole stronger.  Its my preferred joiner and I too have seen some amazing and complex structures built with it. 

cos918

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #338 on: December 27, 2016, 10:34:50 pm »

Silver solder makes an extremely good joint on brass and copper but it does need to be used correctly.  The joints must be polished clean with wire wool as abrasive paper contaminates the joint and stops the solder from flowing.  It melts at around 450 - 600 degrees depending on the type of solder that you use.  I think its safe to say that the brass would break well before the joint if its heated and cleaned correctly.  Soft solder is really easy to use but has very little if any structural strength.  You just need to plan your joints; I am only practising with silver solder as I will be building the mast soon which requires structural integrity other than that i have used soft solder throughout my build.


Hi Mark
I do agree with you silver solder is stronger than soft solder. Your point very little if any structural strength. I would digress. I have built a very big stern ramp out of brass with soft solder and it is very strong . To break it you would need a very strong force . So using silver solder on a mast is over kill .

John
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Mark T

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #339 on: December 27, 2016, 10:51:40 pm »

Hi John


Thats very interesting but I was wondering if your joint had a large surface area?  For my mast I'm soldering 1mm rod to a 2mm tube with a simple butt joint.  For some reason in my mind I just assumed that soft solder would not have the integrity for such a small contact area without any other support.  I've got both types of solder and find either one ok to use but now you've got me thinking  :-)   I've never made a mast before and because its so vulnerable I just thought it best to make it really strong.  Maybe I need to make some test pieces and see how it goes.  More food for thought for me!


Cheers Mark

david48

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #340 on: December 28, 2016, 02:03:57 am »


That's all I used for my mast, soft solder , I had holes in the 2mm tube for the wire for the lights . I had to thread the wire through the solder on the 1mm tube ,then butt  up to the 2mm tube clean the joint , then 1drop of Bakers fluid on the joint , solder on iron the touched the joint and solder just appears to jumps round the joint .
I used a Facom iron with a 40watt setting ,and damp cloth or a pair of forceps as a heat sink .
I had to remake two joints only down to not getting them the right rake backwards so they were all in line .
I used a bit of modellers license to put a strut up the front so I could get a drive up to the radar .
David
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derekwarner

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #341 on: December 28, 2016, 02:57:47 am »

I ditched the electric soldering iron for this work 20 years ago........

Careful thought, building reinforcement or increasing structural rigidity is all important.......so is the never ending ideas of water soaked paper towels as heat sinks  O0

Attempting a "1mm rod to a 2mm tube with a simple butt joint" in silver soldering such light gauge material requires Jewellers micro type gas equipment  <*<

Bakers flux is  :-))

Derek
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Mark T

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #342 on: December 28, 2016, 11:30:25 am »

Hi David thanks for the info  :-))   I've still got the pictures of your completed mast and it turned out perfectly.

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #343 on: December 28, 2016, 03:16:24 pm »

Silver solder makes an extremely good joint on brass and copper but it does need to be used correctly.  The joints must be polished clean with wire wool as abrasive paper contaminates the joint and stops the solder from flowing.  It melts at around 450 - 600 degrees depending on the type of solder that you use.  I think its safe to say that the brass would break well before the joint if its heated and cleaned correctly.  Soft solder is really easy to use but has very little if any structural strength.  You just need to plan your joints; I am only practising with silver solder as I will be building the mast soon which requires structural integrity other than that i have used soft solder throughout my build.


Thanks for the information Mark (and everyone else), that's very interesting.
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cos918

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #344 on: December 28, 2016, 08:58:56 pm »

Hi John


Thats very interesting but I was wondering if your joint had a large surface area?  For my mast I'm soldering 1mm rod to a 2mm tube with a simple butt joint.  For some reason in my mind I just assumed that soft solder would not have the integrity for such a small contact area without any other support.  I've got both types of solder and find either one ok to use but now you've got me thinking  :-)   I've never made a mast before and because its so vulnerable I just thought it best to make it really strong.  Maybe I need to make some test pieces and see how it goes.  More food for thought for me!


Cheers Mark


Hi Mark
I would go what ever method you find best .
Here is my thought . The mast is made like a tank then mounted on a wooden wheel house . You move the weak link . Scale models while made strong are not made to be tanks . On my mast it is all soft solder . The hand rails are solder paste and i could not believe how strong they are when i dropped a box on them . Photos of the mast and ramp on page 6 of the link .
I think your build is coming on really nicely and very neat .
john


http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6762.125.html
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Mark T

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #345 on: January 01, 2017, 06:50:56 pm »

Firstly happy new year Mayhemers  %%   I hope your hangover was not as bad as mine; oh sorry still is  :embarrassed:


Secondly - Crikey John that is simply an amazing piece of work I'm now following your build.


Ok an update on the Alpine; The cranes have been coming along nicely and I finished off the second one on the port side to complete the pair.  I also started getting them ready for paint








Then I made up the crane hooks which took a few attempts to get the correct shape but I got there in the end





Next it was primer and top coats.  These were very difficult to spray just because of their awkward shapes

















And finally fitted on the hull with the access ladders installed too  :-))





Unfortunately I made the cable guides to low and I found out a bit too late  >>:-( Never mind











So whats next?  I've got a few small jobs outstanding such as fitting perspex on the windows in the lower part of the superstructure.  I also need to fit the on/off switch somewhere and paint the part which makes up the wheel house floor.  I've got so few parts left now that they all would fit in a matchbox!  So in essence all of the structure is now complete and I now need to make the main mast and four other antennas. In hindsight I really should have made the main mast before painting the superstructure but you live and learn, I'll just have to be careful.


Thanks for looking - Mark  :-)

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #346 on: January 01, 2017, 08:56:57 pm »

Hi Mark
cranes look very nice .  Thanks for the kind words


john
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david48

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #347 on: January 02, 2017, 09:13:59 am »


Happy new year Mark
ITS not a boast but I might have had a worse hangover ,I am on a 364 day year this time not been like that for years ,got to involved with the farmers and some thing called Macallams .
 The cranes are looking good ,you will be ok with the mast  make a jig to hold thinks at the right angle .
David
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desktoprover

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #348 on: January 02, 2017, 02:51:42 pm »

The cranes look really nice Mark, good work!  I can't wait to see the mast on top of the superstructure.


Happy new year.....Sylvain  :-))
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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine Build
« Reply #349 on: January 02, 2017, 09:25:43 pm »

Looking good . I'm just getting back into mine after an unintended break so not much changed . Must say that's a great idea with the cranes as I was picturing having to lift the booms up and tighten the screw every few weeks  :-))
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