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Author Topic: Dentists  (Read 2644 times)

Brian60

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Dentists
« on: December 16, 2014, 11:41:49 AM »

Went to the dentist last week because I had raging toothache, straight in no appointment, seen in 15 minutes and prescribed antibiotics and painkillers for the infection. Back today to have two teeth extracted. Its cost me 80 privately.

Now back in the UK that would have been 50 if I could have got an appointment at my surgery! I think paying the extra over here in Spain has been worth the cost, but you have to ask the question, if its 50 quid in the UK on NHS and over a 150 if it was private, how come it can be cheaper in a european country? Living standards are the same or in some cases here much higher, so how cna health be cheaper?

Guy Bagley

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Re: Dentists
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2014, 04:31:21 PM »

its cheaper because the sun shines...... but seriously how much did the NHS recently pay for a national  imfomation/ computerised system to hold our health records  - i think it was called project lorenzo ?
 
12 billion is a figure i think i can remember
 and it doesnt work...... thats why we pay more... because NHS wastes more... if it is a private business like your dentist you are more inclined to ensure investments work out and raise standards..
 
dont get me wrong there are some great parts  of the NHS, And some great staff in the system too, but the waste is incredible....
 
 in the last year a close family member had a long spell in hospital as a result of a hospital choosing not to do a preventative CT Scan due to cost... we were told it really wasnt needed and the scan was costly...even though  the family member was sent by their GP with s refferal letter for a requested scan....
the hospital thought they knew better and discharged  her without doing the scan..
48 hours later we are on the way to a specialist hospital 60 miles away  for specialist neuro surgery because family member had collapsed due to a brain hemmourage that should have been picked upon the CT Scan the family GP requested...
so instead of catching it early with a scan ( which yes does cost time and money ) the NHS  picked up a bill for a 60 mile emergency ambulance ride to a specialist hospital, a total of 4 operations in a specialist neuro surgery unit  (a total of  21 hours on the operating table )  an intensive care bed for 5 weeks  ON LIFE SUPPORT ( with round the clock 1 to 1  nursing, )  several CT Scans to assess recovery during the treatment , the moving of the patient in a specialist transfer ambulance a further 50 miles, and now the patient has a 7 month stay in a neuro rehab unit....
 
after which they will require ongoing 24/ 7 care  some of which the NHS Will be financing !
( THERE IS ALSO THE POSSABILITY OF A LEGAL CLAIM AGAINST THE NHS TRUST TOO )
 
 but we did save the first hospital the cost of their CT SCAN..........
 
 THATS WHY IN SOME WAYS PRIVATE HEALTH CAN BE CHEAPER IN THE LONG RUN.... LESS WASTE AND LESS MISMANAGEMENT
 
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sparkey

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Re: Dentists
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2014, 04:44:51 PM »

 ok2  There is a lot of money in toothache just look at what your Dentist drives around in,mine has a new Porshe all right for some, still looking in peoples mouths is not my cup of tea,    Ray. :-)) :-)) :-))
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Brian60

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Re: Dentists
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2014, 06:08:41 PM »

Guy, as someone who retired from 38 years of nhs service last year, I can totally agree.

The Lorenzo records system is a total money sewer, the worst piece of computer hardware/software ever invented in healthcare. Yet it is the governments 'preferred' system, notice they leave it to individual trusts to decide which system they want. Our trust looked at three offerings for record keeping, they took on board what staff said, what other trusts said, what the local health (pct) group said and still went for Lorenzo.

Even though all parties consulted said it was a total waste of space (it was trialled alongside existing software for 6 months) they still bought the most expensive and most useless operating system. In the case of our trust it would not integrate with other software either!

I worked in the hospital pharmacy. Lorenzo would not integrate with the pharmacy system, meaning cross referencing of drugs and patients had to be done by hand. Even the pharmacy system was outdated, it should have been upgraded in 2012 as the drug companies moved over to a new system. However as the new software would not run on anything less that windows 7 we couldn't implement it. The computers in the department being so old they barely run win2000 never mind Vista!

 No money for new computers so no new software, this meant lots and lots of phonecalls trying to source certain drugs, when if we were hooked up to stock levels not only of manufacturers but other hospitals as well, we could have done a quick global search to locate who had what we needed.

grub

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Re: Dentists
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2014, 06:33:16 PM »

I've accidentally sussed this toothache thing out :-)) , you need to wait until Saturday morning and phone 111. Same day extraction, 15. 111 dental for me every time I need a dentist now as it's cheaper...

malcolmfrary

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Re: Dentists
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2014, 06:47:31 PM »

This might or might not be pertinent to the choice of computer system,but a lot of years ago my company was looking for a customer service system to do all of the things required.  One, Edinburgh based, was superb in the way that it did everything.  Another, by a Florida based company, was at best awkward to operate and temperamental.  Its test results were on a par with tossing a coin in the air.  The people who were to have it demonstrated to were invited to take their families along.  Florida - Edinburgh - one guess.
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: Dentists
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2014, 11:33:28 PM »

I contracted for the NHS doing IT, the amount of wasted money on projects that were scrapped shelved or just ultimately useless was staggering.
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Nordsee

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Re: Dentists
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2014, 05:21:05 PM »

I use Blood thinning tablets and every 3 weeks or so I go to my GP and have a blood test. This involves pricking a finger and squeezing a drop of blood on a machine similar to a Blood Sugar tester as used by Diabetics. 40 seconds later I get the result. Later that day I call the Doc to see if I need to Change my Dosage. Time taken 10 minutes, tops. While in UK this year I needed to have my test, went to a GP, as I wasn't a registered Patient I had to Register, this would take 3 days, then apply for an appointment, a further 2 days. After the test the sample was sent to a Lab. to be measured, a further 3 days  for the result to be sent to the GPs Surgery. The question is Why? I have since asked my GP how much such a machine costs, he told me about 150 ,he was amazed that I had so much trouble
, even though I had my German Health Card the Receptionist said her PC couldn't read it. The NHS seems bogged down with antiquated Systems and practices. My GP has, in Surgery an Ulta Sound machine,as most GPs have. There you look at the Screen as they tell you what is happening. My Urologist has X Ray in his surgery, plus a small OP room for some treatment and an Ultra Sound in each of 3 Treatment rooms, he does blood tests in house, no sending to Labs. Send some Docs here or Holland to see how it should be done, then sack half of the Senior Management of the Health Boards that should get the remaining members alert, and get that System moving!
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Mad Scientist

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Re: Dentists
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2014, 12:29:50 AM »

If it's any consolation to anybody, problems such as these are certainly not limited to the NHS, nor to medicine or dentistry. My own pet theory: in a bureaucracy, the PROCESS is more important than the PRODUCT. This leads to mountains of paperwork and terabytes of data, all organized PERFECTLY - a testament to following the rules! - and of no practical use to anybody. >>:-(

I wonder if there's a 'Medical Bureaucracy Mayhem' website, with a 'Chit Chat' section where the members discuss crazy adults who play with R/C boats? :o

Tom
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grendel

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Re: Dentists
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2014, 09:12:51 AM »

Nordsee, I am on warfarin and I go to a local pharmacy where they do the INR test using the same machine as the surgery, get the results and prescribe the warfarin on the spot - on a Saturday when I don't have to take time off work.
Here in Canterbury (Kent) we have the choice of 2 pharmacies that will do the test, or your GP's, or the specialist unit up the hospital (though they usually kick you out as soon as you are on a stable dose).
there is just the one that does it on a Saturday (and if they don't have a pharmacist trained up available on that Saturday they make an appointment and the trained pharmacist pops in for 10 minutes to do the test)
excellent service, and all done and dusted in just a few minutes (including enough tablets to last until the next test) I do pay for the tablets as a normal prescription charge, but they happily give me 8 weeks worth if that is when my next test is.
the other week I did have a phone call to ask if I could move my test this coming Saturday to the Monday to save the pharmacist having to make a special trip in - as I will be on holiday from work that day I agreed, but it will revert back to Saturdays after that.
It might be worth asking at your GP's if any local pharmacies can do the test for you. I reckon I am in and out in about 5 - 10 minutes nowadays (including parking)
Grendel
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Dentists
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2014, 10:26:14 AM »

Quote
My own pet theory: in a bureaucracy, the PROCESS is more important than the PRODUCT. This leads to mountains of paperwork and terabytes of data, all organized PERFECTLY - a testament to following the rules!

There is a lot of truth in that but in a medical situation where you don't follow the process and the patient keels over and dies then a lot of people are suddenly in deep do do!

Very often there do need to be rules and processes but they should constantly critically reviewed to ensure they are still appropriate, efficient and essential to the job in hand and that's where it all goes off the rails! What actually happens is that changes generate new rules/processes which are simply layered on top of the existing ones rather than replacing them.

Colin
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U-33

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Re: Dentists
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2014, 10:48:12 AM »

The old phrase ''too many chiefs and not enough indians'' springs to mind...

Rich
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