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Author Topic: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane  (Read 12822 times)

xrad

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XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« on: December 22, 2014, 07:58:16 pm »

Hello, All, After some intense steam builds, I am taking a break  to lightly concentrate on a cool conversion. I am using a 'Tantrasway' ebay mahogany hydroplane hull and converting it to RC. 

This is a great looking boat. You can find it for sale for as much as 700$. Not sure who would pay that though.  If you search the web carefully, you will see this exact same boat sold by several vendors. It comes in several quality levels (such as finished hatch undersides, and paneling of under-hatch areas.  Also, different steering wheel covers, and gauges. Additionally, the brasswork is better on some models than others (ex: mitred hatch edge vs straight cut). the seats are stitched vinyl over foam(very nice) .

Definitely saves me some time in the build and for 190$ + shipping, this is a great model to use.  It is plank on frame and the inside and outside are resin coated.  The inside is quite rough as would be expected, but the outside finish is excellent, and the gentle curves and proportions are well kept. It measures 38 inches stem to stern.  There is no stuffing shaft hole. Comes with decorative rudder and propeller, which are useless for conversion. Out of the several already built 20-30's boats, this is the largest and best looking version for my rc conversion.

The boat has a hydroplane tunnel hull, deep dark green bottom paint, and very nice topside finish. Also, there is a flat transom so that mounting a rudder is easy.

Here is a pic of the boat. Fast shipping(Vietnam to my door in under two weeks!) and very well encased in foam. I am using a 2.4gHz tactic tx rx, 600 size 12v motor, lipo esc, and about a 40mm 19pitch prop (2 or 3 blade) More pics and description of the build to come.
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xrad

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2014, 06:43:51 pm »

Much progress. now running trials in the tub!

Pics say a thousand words. you will be unwrapping this one for about 40 minutes. Have to remove much lumber from interior. To drill the stuffing tube hole, make a guide block and get a 1 ft long 1/4 drill bit. prop location based on designs of the time.   takes a while to get the tube aligned. work from both ends. I kept the shaft angle as low as possible to the hull. It is a ~11.5in 4mm robbe stuffing tube (just long enough) with 3/16 adapter so that I can choose from the many octura props.    stuffing tube strut silver soldered piece I cut from the original almost useless part.  You will have to patch a few more unneeded hull holes (sticks and stems epoxied in where needed).

engine mount is plate aluminum sitting in plywood and Ca and epoxied into hull. Battery velcroed to ply base. 

The business end is using large adjustable aluminum trim tabs (very nicely made)  and large rudder (very nicely made)from Offshore electrics. hammered bronze paint. 

Parts list:
Octura 21/40 three blade prop  (spares include 1740/3 and 1938 ) 13-16$
rudder  ose-80057  24$
dubro seal: dh-3108
adj trim tabs: ose-80925  29$
standard servo for steering  10$

Power: to make life easy, I used a known entity, Aquacraft Rescue 17 parts
Lipo 3s speed control (12v)  50$
600 motor: Low speed, high torque  12$
2.4Ghz rx and tx  (extra receivers 25$ and take a second to link to any Tx)
Rescue 17 rubber shaft coupler (note that the holes at each end are slightly different diameter requiring me to machine the prop shaft to correct diameter for the one end, and the other end of course, fits the motor shaft perfectly)


cooling tube, aluminum wrapped around motor

with everything where it is, almost perfect balance. The three blade puts out a good amount of thrust.  Pond vid soon....

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xrad

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2014, 06:57:26 pm »

All through hull holes are sealed with shoe goo on the outside and Ca in the inside.  Rudder servo rod runs length of boat through three bulkheads and the engine mount to help keep it from flexing.  Not sure if the there will be enough force to get the cooling water up to the engine, but will find out. 
will add a few holes for cooling air under the front scoop.   Also plan to add a few pieces of closed cell foam up front.  Unfortunately, had to cut a hatch into the rear deck. This can be done carefully with x-acto saw blade. Will make mahogany trim for it.

More pics of build:
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Big Ada

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2014, 05:59:57 pm »

Wow, what a nice conversion job you are doing on it.

Len.
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Antipodean

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2014, 03:03:56 pm »

Looking good. That is some heavy looking kit at the stern.
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xrad

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2014, 10:58:06 pm »

hey fellas! Thanks! Antipodean, what are you doing over here..no steam for you! Looks 'heavy' but parts only a few ounces. Trim tabs may be a bit oversized, and rudder a bit long, but hardware similar to this was on some racers of the time.  I just visited the antique boat museum in NY(thousand islands) and was surprised at how advanced some of the hardware was.   Milling a mock-up engine to cover the big midship hole. all aluminum.  Here is top view of the drawing I made. Just ordered 100 shiny 2mm acorn nuts.


Can anyone guess the engine?

unfortunately, can't post an 80mb image. I was able to post a 4mb image! Always hard to post images , even with the new server. will try again.....
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xrad

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2014, 11:37:43 pm »

trying again,  89Kb...worked this time...... Anyway, can anyone guess the engine?
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derekwarner

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2014, 12:39:05 am »

 :-)....... XRAD.......

British V12 Merlin engines had the spark plug locations on each respective side of the engine heads

American V12 Packard engines had the spark plug locations on each respective top of the engine heads

The image of your engine suggests it is a V16  :o....and the plug leads locations to the plugs on the tops of the heads  O0

So my guess is an American built V16.....

Remember that the American Packard V12 engines were also supplied to be installed in the British Spitfire aircraft............ Derek
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vnkiwi

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2014, 12:59:09 am »

Looks more like a V8, twin distributors on the ends of twin camshafts.
A purpose built racing engine, two spark plugs per cylinder.
More like a Ferrari, or similar style  %)
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derekwarner

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2014, 01:50:05 am »

Well a happy NY to you VNK  :-)) ....

If we go back [via Google] to the early 1900's .....we don't see too many references to twin plugs per cylinder......

Apart from that the plug lead spacing in the image appears relatively uniform over the length of the blocks

Mind you I will happily eat humble apple pie  O0 if it is a V8................. Derek
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Antipodean

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2014, 03:05:50 am »

Not just wanting steam xrad, I have a set of plans for a 48" triple cockpit barrel back somewhere in my pile of things to do.
I look forward to watching the engine cover make it's appearance.
Just moved house so I may be able to get my workshop set up and actually get back to work.
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vnkiwi

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2014, 03:36:23 am »

Happy New Year Derek, to yourself and yours. :-))

If period, the engine could have been one of Miller's, or as you think a Packard.
If non-period, could be anything >>:-(
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xrad

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2014, 02:39:32 pm »

Happy NY everyone. Nice to see the steam team over here !   

American V16 Harry Miller design with supercharger.  Single plug per cylinder. dual cam driven distributors.  This will look great in the John Hacker 'Zipper' boat.  This was a 1930 design and quite an impressive engine when you see it compared to a 1927 Ford four banger(see pics). Not to say that the Ford was less of an engine(it was perfect for mass consumption). Rather to show that the Millers were supreme art and function and at the extreme of engineering at the time. Make for great models, too!


2x2in aluminum bar machined down to a 54 degree block. 4 3/16 length.  Will have double overhead cam heads, and then get polished up so should look good.  The block is about 1 inch too long to mill on the Y axis, so make a jig so that easy to mill all angles with quick loosening of top clamps.  This is a Microlux R8 mill.  I bought this one because crank divisions are at .050 per turn which is easy math in my head.  It has several other great features and is perfect for model building.  Been using this for over 3 years without a hitch.
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vnkiwi

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2014, 09:44:37 pm »

Very nice piece of kit.
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xrad

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2014, 10:12:20 pm »

That a nice set of Millers in a Gar Wood boat. I think this boat sold a few years ago at auction.  can you imaging screaming down the lake with two open pipe V16's at 6000rpm?!?!  Must have been quite a site in the 30's and still would be today....... %%
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vnkiwi

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2014, 10:27:25 pm »

Agree, and Miller and Offy created some very nicely engineered engines, quite on a par with European style engineering.
Looking forward to seeing your boat finished and on the water, so keep them photos coming.
Derek, you got it right with your V16 suggestion O0
All the best for a fantastic 2015
 :-))
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xrad

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2014, 11:47:26 pm »

 

Almost finished the cam chain covers. Milled from one block and sliced off like bread: 
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xrad

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2015, 09:23:01 pm »

Starting the new year off right. Rough mock up of parts. Machining the supercharger w/ a 360 indexer. Still have the heads, mounts , and plenty of small bits to do. this piece of aluminum has a grain that I can really feel when milling. A few squirts of WD40 really helped, especially when slit sawing the big block into smaller bits.
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xrad

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2015, 07:42:41 pm »

some more bits. Hammered copper air filter covers on brass mandrel. Fun making the dizzys.  Of note: Most of the Miller engines have 4 bolt cam covers (on top at end), some have 6 bolts.  looks like the 4 bolt style was more common. And if you look closely, some engines are mixed with both styles. I guess when rebuilding these, you have to use what you can get.

Build on hold until fresh supply of aluminum bar arrives. I use 'online metals.' fast shippers, easy to use website, very descriptive info, and sells small pieces.
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xrad

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2015, 02:18:27 am »

Nickle alloy acorn nuts arrived in mail. Very fast delivery form MiniTaps.  They have a nice selection of tiny nuts, taps and screws at good prices (for the size)  down to M 0.3 !!   I use M 2.4 acorns and screws. American sizes 0000-160 to 0-80! Wow.

at least 104 nuts needed just for heads and supercharger %%, so had to order more.....

From what I can figure off the limited net pics of the V16 install is that the flywheel is up front, and output from crank goes forwards to an angled gearbox, which then sends power back rearwards , under the engine,  to prop shaft. I don't plan on making those parts. 

Anyone have a cooling system diagram for a Miller V16?

Looks like head cooling pipes on top with flow up and out(or down and in?)  , through engine and/or over the side, being  pumped in/out from the lower side of block/head (where the copper tube and its four outlets will be attached).


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xrad

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2015, 03:06:39 am »

and if you are enjoying this, you may like one of my other builds(easy reading 3 page thread):

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,48955.0.html

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sailman

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2015, 04:30:34 pm »

This boat demonstrates classic 40-50s lines.  The finish is exquisite, and floats well on its water line.  Your adaptations for installation of engine, battery and prop shaft are notable.  Once complete, the boat should sail well and stay on its designed water line.  Nice job.
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2015, 04:44:54 pm »

Nickle alloy acorn nuts arrived in mail. Very fast delivery form MiniTaps.  They have a nice selection of tiny nuts, taps and screws at good prices (for the size)  down to M 0.3 !!   I use M 2.4 acorns and screws. American sizes 0000-160 to 0-80! Wow.

at least 104 nuts needed just for heads and supercharger %% , so had to order more.....

From what I can figure off the limited net pics of the V16 install is that the flywheel is up front, and output from crank goes forwards to an angled gearbox, which then sends power back rearwards , under the engine,  to prop shaft. I don't plan on making those parts. 

Anyone have a cooling system diagram for a Miller V16?

Looks like head cooling pipes on top with flow up and out(or down and in?)  , through engine and/or over the side, being  pumped in/out from the lower side of block/head (where the copper tube and its four outlets will be attached).


Your thread should come with a warning
"Warning contains images of engineering pornography, viewer discretion advised"
That engine looks amazing
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xrad

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2015, 01:48:54 pm »

Thanks, fellas!  Yep, I find myself staring at it too....
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xrad

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Re: XRAD's Gentleman's hydroplane
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2015, 02:58:08 am »

More eye candy.......   took 8 hours to mill the heads, set the cam covers, and make the rear cam sheets...another 32 acorns... :-)
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