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Author Topic: Modellers lathe  (Read 10191 times)

sailorboy61

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Modellers lathe
« on: December 23, 2014, 07:05:40 pm »

I've just aquired a modellers lathe, a Proxxon 230, because I thought it was a good idea!
Having never done anything along that line before, (i was a deck officer not an engineer..... clean hands!), I'm looking for somewhere/something to get me up and running, a beginners book etc.
Can any of the real engineers out there point me in the direction of a good basic starters guide.

Much appreciated.
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imsinking

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2014, 12:10:17 am »

Anything published by David Fenner is usually worth reading, a couple on EBay now . . .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Mini-Lathe-Book-43-in-the-Workshop-Practice-Series-David-Fenner-/191446867038?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item2c931f5c5e
You will also need a book on 'ADVANCED PROFANITIES' and an ample selection of waterproof PLASTERS (it's not a good job unless you spill BLOOD)  O0   %%
The lathe is only half the kit, tooling & materials cost nearly as much . . . .
Bill  :-))
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HUNTER

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2015, 11:41:45 am »

Hi all,
You have got yourself one of the best if not the best micro lathe available. I used to have one and had all of the extra's for it. It was brilliant, I could even turn down to 1mm in brass with no problem. Enjoy.
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sailorboy61

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2015, 01:25:02 pm »

Hi all,
You have got yourself one of the best if not the best micro lathe available. I used to have one and had all of the extra's for it. It was brilliant, I could even turn down to 1mm in brass with no problem. Enjoy.

Thanks, not got around to trying it yet, but looking forwards to the learning curve.  Turns out there was also a Proxxon milling machine in the deal - extra bargain......
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boneash

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2015, 01:31:13 pm »

I would recommend watching a few hours of Keith Fenner's you tube videos.
Whilst being Big Jobs his methods ,skills and accuracy are well worth taking on board, IMHO.

Have a good time with it, them!
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flashtwo

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2015, 06:45:28 pm »

Don't waste your money on a new eye - buy a pair of safety specs instead, since you can't use a magnet to get a bit of brass out of your eyes.

A bit like the lottery - "It could be you!".........

Ian
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chuffy

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2015, 10:25:19 am »

By all means read up on the subject but like many other aspects of modelling hands on is generally a good second best, Assuming that you have a selection of cutting tools get yourself some brass round stock and just play with it. You'll be surprised how much you learn. Light cuts so that you don't need coolant a little paraffin will do if you think things are getting a little hot and your away.


There are plenty of things that will bite back, the books will have warned you of these but my three top tips, safety glasses and always remove the chuck key before switching and don't clear swaf with the chuck turning and you avoid metal in the eye, a smack in the face with a lump of metal at about 60mph and your fingers being wrapped in metal swaf and dragged into the cutter/ tool post and chuck.


Best of luck


Paul
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sailorboy61

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2015, 03:52:46 pm »

By all means read up on the subject but like many other aspects of modelling hands on is generally a good second best, Assuming that you have a selection of cutting tools get yourself some brass round stock and just play with it. You'll be surprised how much you learn. Light cuts so that you don't need coolant a little paraffin will do if you think things are getting a little hot and your away.


There are plenty of things that will bite back, the books will have warned you of these but my three top tips, safety glasses and always remove the chuck key before switching and don't clear swaf with the chuck turning and you avoid metal in the eye, a smack in the face with a lump of metal at about 60mph and your fingers being wrapped in metal swaf and dragged into the cutter/ tool post and chuck.


Best of luck


Paul

Thanks Paul,

picked up some round bar at the show over the weekend, have suitable safety glasses on standby, and a set of what I think should be good ceramic tip tools.

Now bring on the spare time!

cheers
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chuffy

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2015, 04:26:31 pm »

Your fit to go then.


Keeping safety in mind as things can happen quite quickly and see what each tool will do and how you can link the product of one type with that of another to produce say a small gun barrel or a bollard. More complicated items are mostly made up of several simple forms fitted together in some way.


Enjoy!


Paul.
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Subculture

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2015, 04:14:12 pm »

Unless you're machining hard stuff or working fast, HSS tool bits take some beating and tend to give the best finish, plus they're cheaper than tipped tools.
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nemesis

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2015, 06:48:15 pm »

Hi get yourself a good grindstone with a fine wheel, essential if using HSS. Then read up on tool angles, important if using a small lathe. Nemesis
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chuffy

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2015, 08:54:50 pm »

If your getting a grinding wheel get a diamond tip dresser with it, that achieves two things 1, gets the crap out of the wheel keeping it clean and sharp and 2 also flat.


The latter down to a steady hand and some form of rigid support for the dresser, your not going to achieve accurately ground tools with a wheel with the profile of a dogs hind leg on it!


Paul.
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sean Half-pint works

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2015, 10:49:05 pm »

A few tips,

As with airbrushing, I was taught to do two shallower cuts, rather than one deep one.

If in doubt, stop, measure, refer to drawings them carry on.

Always were your safety specs even if the lathe is not moving at the time, that way if you catch something with your hand or something or someone accidently sets it in motion.

Always, always take the chuck key out before you start the lathe.

And the most important one, keep your tools sharp, and clean, keep an eye on them for chipped blades, tips or other signs of stress, if in doubt get a more experienced machinist to check them, or replace them

With non lubricated swarf (the bits of metal you cut away, razor sharp by the way!!) I found a small wet n dry hoover is a safer way to clear them off the cutting bed without getting them embedded in your fingers or gloves.

Read the manual and reallly get to know your lathe, also look for information such as where to lubricate the mechanism (if needed) and any routine maintenance it may need to perform well.

Finally, always put the guard I its rightful place before starting the lathe, even if there is nothing in the chuck.

When you get started playing, look at the indexing marks on the control handles, and really look at how they effect they have on the cuts you make, look at videos, and maybe have a word with your local model engineering society, odds on someone will be willing to help you get started.

Most importantly, have fun with the lathe, when you get the knack of it, there is not much you will not be able to make.

Hope this helps.

Sean
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sailorboy61

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2015, 08:56:26 am »

Thanks all for the information and advice.


 %%
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chuffy

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2015, 08:59:09 am »

What have you made then?


How big is your heap of scrap?



Paul
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sailorboy61

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2015, 09:02:57 am »

HaHa, nothing as yet, still haven't managed to get it set up on the bench. I shall post something once I get it sorted!
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ballastanksian

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2015, 09:28:34 pm »

Having absorbed the saftey advice take these three points into consideration.

1. Plan ahead. Draw your piece out on a piece of paper. You con't have to be a draughtsman, just a simple sketch with measurements and some idea of what might be soldered or attached to it so you can adapt your piece to get the best end result out of it. Remember, you might have to turn the piece around and hold the other end in the chuck to machine what was the end originally held. This is pertinent if you have already threaded it or it is an uneven shape that the jaws will not hold properly introducing a saftey hazard. My 1940s lathe does not have any shields etc (This is not a boast believe me) so I always consider the risks of what needs to be turned about before I start making swarf:O)

2. Measure twice-cut once. Then check again to make sure you have not misread the ruler/gauge. I did this last week and it is a blasted nuisance >>:-(

3. IF you plan to use steel and have/buy a set of tungsten tools, remember that cheap ain't good. I have a set I bought for £19 and they are not the best. Also, if you are roughing out a casting or odd shaped piece of steel or cast iron especially, machine the piece doen to clean metal with an old HSS tool first to save the more costly tungsten tool from impact damage in the former case, and from trapped "xxxxx"/casting sand in the latter case. These can damageyour lovely expensive sharp edges that will then require professional sharpening or the purchase of a costly green sharpening disk for your grinder especially for tungsten tools.

Have fun, it is an absorbing activity that adds an extra dimention to your model making. having a Mill just makes it even cooler :-))
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Jerry Hill

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2015, 12:25:49 am »

My ten cents. Stick to HSS tools for pretty much everything. Tungsten Carbide and ceramic can not be sharpened to anything like the same degree, and need far more force to commence an progress a cut, rubbing more than cutting on small stuff, indeed some TC will simply not allow cuts of less that a few thousandsths. They are also much more costly that HSS.


Along with whatever guide you get for the operation of a lathe the grinding and dressing of tools should go alongside that (all tools should be dressed with a fine 'slip stone' to give a keen edge otherwise the tool will only be as good as the grit of the wheel that ground it). Low cost HSS from China is fine for most things and can be bought in square blanks small enough to fit your tool post, one blank, halved and ground on each end will give four usable tools, possibly six if needed. There is no need for fancy HSS/Cobalt stuff for most modelling materials.


Use Coolant. As a professional Turner this is one of the most frustrating things to witness not being talked about enough on hobby forums. Your tool life, surface finish, dimensional accuracy, corrosion resistance and even the ability to cut at all can depend on it. Ideally a simple constant feed/drain system can be setup (I used a submersible pond pump  %) ) But this needs a decent sealed chip tray and reservoir setup and is not always practical, but a simple small squeezy bottle is fine for small work and will minimise waste and clean up. I use a modern water soluble coolant on all materials which even at 1% solution will not cause a machine to rust. And at those dilutions a small bottle will last for years, they contain fungicides which stops the old risk of nasties growing in them too.
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ballastanksian

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2015, 09:11:54 am »

A chap who has many videos on youtube uses a bottle like Jerry mentions and squirts some coolant every time he does a cutting job. This seems to be enough for small jobs. Obviously, if you are anticipating a prolonged machining job then periodic application will be better.

I use three in one oil for drilling.
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sweeper

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2015, 12:17:27 pm »

Oil for drilling?...... Oh dear.
As  a young person doing a fitting course my foreman caught me doing just this (with the same brand of oil as well).  Words were uttered and I was a much wiser apprentice!
Explanation, the function of oil is to provide a barrier between metal surfaces so it must be broken down by the drill bit.
His suggestion was paraffin but my choice over many years was to use Rocol liquid or paste (good products with a pleasant smell !).
Other readers may disagree but hey that's life.

Hope that this is of some use.

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ballastanksian

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2015, 08:29:26 pm »

Thankyou for the hint! I have to admit that Trefelux and a cutting fluid is on my to get list as my model engineering exploits seem to be increasing.

Sadly, by the time I was at school and dabbling with lathes etc, industry was a dirty word and so the push to get youngsters into engineering was much lower than other things (Not that I can put my finger on a particular specialism that my school excelled.) so the hints and tips were non existant.

I think this is why I find this forum and the magazines so very helpful.

Anyhow, back to the lathe. Have you dabbled yet Mr Sailor Boy?
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Jerry Hill

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2015, 08:38:41 pm »

It's not a big deal to uses 3in1 for drilling, the high point pressures will hardly be barred by it and the benefit of lubricating the landings of the drill helix are still there. No doubt it's not something a person being trained will be told if the idea is to teach only absolute correctness, but for most folk and a hobby lathe it's not that important. Aromatic oils generally are configured for domestic use, and available in handy quantities, so not an ideal but accessible and certainly better than nothing.


Rocol in liquid form is far less hassle to work with than the comparatively clingy paste version, but it's excellent stuff and good for most heavy drilling. What's the biggest drill diameter you're going to cut though? Curiously I really don't like the smell of Rocol.


A lot depends on what's being cut. Aluminium likes paraffin, even white spirit at a push slightly thickened with some engine oil.
Many say no lube for brasses, but whilst it's not a requirement if your tools are nice and sharp, coolant, lubricant or both can help with stopping annoying showers of brass needles flying everywhere if turning the stuff, and if you're deep drilling a thin walled component it'll stop the part heating and subsequently shrinking and grabbing the drill as it goes deeper.
Stainless steels can be an absolute pig depending on which type, but a cure-all for any of them is Lubisil 6. Even hardened or high tensile stainless yields easily with this stuff. Even making the impossible possible, when faced with a hand airdrill as the only means to put split pin holes through full size boat prop shafts at some 1 1/2" diameter a split point drill and Lubisil would halve the drilling time it would take me and not trash the drill.
Bronzes are similar to brass, but some of those can be gnarly indeed such as aluminium bronze. But, as you get to know materials you'll find those which should be avoided, and variants specifically for machining such as leaded bronze which is a favourite of mine.
Mild steels are where the biggest variants lie. Some basically identified Mild Steel bar stock is utter rubbish and can have hard inclusions and such variance in texture that getting a good finish can only be achieve by surface grinding, but classic EN1a from an assured source can be lovely stuff to work with. High Carbon steels are more tricky, but the correct tool angles and use can breeze through these too.


This could go on for a long time, but if there's one other thing that being aware of is a benefit is 'Speeds and Feeds'. The speed of the workpiece passing the tool, and the rate at which the tool is fed into the work, is a narrow band for each material for optimum cutting. Some materials have to be turned fast and fed fast for cuts to be made at all, Titanium is a real challenge, but with feet on the floor you'll find this stuff out in time. For now, safety first, start slow, and give it a go.
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ballastanksian

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Re: Modellers lathe
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2015, 08:52:04 pm »

The biggest I have bored in my adult experiances in model engineering have been about 10mm and this was not deep. I have done a few larger holes on Modlab (Chemical wood block) but that does not need cooling or lubricating. I will look up a few of these product names and parrafin is available from iron mongers.
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