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Author Topic: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3  (Read 73838 times)

raflaunches

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Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« on: December 24, 2014, 10:42:13 AM »

Hello


When my Dad finishes his latest project of the submarine cruiser HMS X1 he has already chosen his next model to build and would like to share it with everyone. Keeping with strange and oddities of the Royal Navy he was skimming through my book of 'A Shipyard at War' a story of John Brown's famous yard on the Clyde, where he saw a stunning picture of this vessel (not the picture from the book by the way!)





Built in 1917, Train Ferry Number 3 was built for the war effort to transport trains, wagons and anything else required to France. There were three built and after the war they were all sold off to train lines like LNER to operate from Richborough, Harwich, and Margate to Zeebrugge, Calais, etc.
The decision is to build her to 1/72 (1/76 or OO/HO Gauge) to allow convenient scaled railway stuff to be used. I've already got him a WW1 era train of the famous Ambulance Train No 40 and I'm going to get him some wagons. Interestingly I've found some images online of one transporting cars and trucks and one paid a visit to Russia with some Mk IV tanks!


Here are some pictures I've won off fleabay.








We intend to build her as seen in these pictures with the dazzle finish- and yes before anyone points it out they are of her sister ship TF No 2!
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Nick B

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gingyer

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2014, 08:21:54 PM »

Interesting model  :-))
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pugwash

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2014, 09:45:48 PM »

Well the pair of you seem to select some very unusual ships to model
Best of luck with the new project

Geoff
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grendel

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2014, 12:26:44 PM »

good luck to you on the project. I did have a chat with my dad this morning, and he has a whole folder of information on these boats and their history, (about 3/4" thick) including some British Rail photos marked as not for publication, showing the decks.
Also there is (he tells me) a model at the ramsgate maritime museum of one of these boats.
another interesting fact was that train ferry 3 was made at a different manufacturer than 1 and 2, TF3 was sunk in 1941, but there is some discrepancies in the records (engine numbers etc ) that indicate the numbering may have changed.
if you need copies / more details let me know and I will try and get a copy for you.
Grendel
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tghsmith

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2014, 04:32:09 PM »

the strange stuff is just that much more fun!!!!  then again I was given a T-shirt for Christmas reading " I'm not sick, I'm twisted, sick makes you think there's a cure!!!"
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GAZOU

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raflaunches

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2014, 10:12:29 AM »

Hi everyone


Hope you all got what you wanted for Christmas, must say that I did- I got to be at home!


Thanks to everyone for the links, its really amazing what is hidden on the internet, and I thought I had done a thorough search. :}


Grendel, I, and my Dad would be most grateful of any help from you and your Dad- I always had an inkling that someone might have some info on them since it crosses two modelling areas, boats and trains. Annoyingly we visited Ramsgate in October as part of our holiday to Kent, we were staying just outside Canterbury in a small village called Westbere and stayed opposite a lovely old pub called the Yew Tree, it was a really lovely holiday but the museum at Ramsgate was closed until next year which was a shame because we always enjoy looking around it. If your Dad would like to share some of his info we will try our best to build a lovely model of TF3.
I bought a book by the World Ship Society called Short Water Long War about ferries and landing craft vessels and it mentioned the Train Ferry No 1, 2 and 3 but only in WW2.


We've been in contact with the NMM in Greenwich for plans and there are only three in the entire collection, two drawn to 1/192 and one at 1/96, and they are of them as built in 1917 so I'm saving up my pennies to buy a set in the New Year.


Anyway... Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all :-))
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Nick B

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grendel

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2014, 11:19:56 AM »

my dad also has contact with someone who did a talk about the port at richborough, unfortunately he didnt know much about the ships so passed and ship questions at the end to my dad to answer.
my dads speciality is the British rail and sealink ferries, so much so that he is contributing to 2 books on sealink at present, with around 3000 of his photos out with the books authors, Some of the photos he has of the 3 train ferries clearly show the rear decks and arrangement of tracks on board the ship, plus he has details of tonnage transported during the first world war through the port. it may be a week or two until I visit again, but hopefully he has most of the information electronically.
Grendel
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gingyer

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2014, 06:02:11 PM »

Nick,
According to the clyde database the train ferry No3 was not built at John Browns, but Fairfields.
The good news the glasgow City archives (Mitchell library) have pictures of it being built :-))


http://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/overview.aspx?st=1&tc=y&tl=n&tn=n&tp=n&k=Train+ferry&ko=a&r=&ro=s&df=&dt=&di=y


They are a series of pictures taken every 2 weeks thought out its build in 1917
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grendel

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2014, 06:22:56 PM »

Gingyer, thats correct Fairfields built No.3, the other two were built at armstrong whitworth I believe (now you say the name I can remember thats what my dad said) he also told me about the 13 women that dissasembled crashed planes for spare parts, and the raf shipbuilders that built high speed launches and high speed towing barges to allow planes to land, as well as be towed across the channel for launching from the beaches (to gain an extra 20 miles range) the barges would be towed and the planes fly up behind and land on them.
(once I asked my dad I was given an hours lecture on the boats, history of the port and related topics)
These were built next to the loading ramp for the ferry.
Grendel
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raflaunches

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2014, 10:19:02 AM »

Hi Guys


Sorry for the late reply to your posts but an un-expected death in the family stopped me being my usual happy self. <:(


Anyway looking on the brighter side, thank you all for the excellent links and information being passed my way, I'll be definitely be applying for the build pictures of TF3 and look forward to hearing from Grendal and his dad.


I was looking through the book again and it states that the picture was taken by the John Brown Shipyard photographer as he liked to take pictures of all vessels that were moving up and down the Clyde at the time, it does say in the book that she was built at Fairfields-sorry for the confusion! One thing that does confuse me in the picture (and I'll try to upload it) it claims that the TF3 is being towed out just after completion but quite clearly she is already carrying a train!
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Nick B

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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2014, 10:21:04 AM »

My sympathies for you loss Nick.
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gingyer

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2014, 12:08:49 PM »

Sorry for your loss Nick


The reason it may of been carrying a train would be a simple thing.......
How else do you check the tracks can carry a train upon completion?
It's one thing checking with a tape measure but best to try the real thing
bearing in mind in Glasgow, was churning out trains as well as ship :-))
So if the admiralty had bought a few trains send them down to the shipyard to test the
New boat and then deliver together.......
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grendel

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2014, 01:59:03 PM »

Also if doing sea trials, they would want to ascertain the stability of the cargo under test conditions, as well as the performance of the vessel with a load.
Grendel
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raflaunches

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2014, 09:29:06 AM »

Thanks for re-assuring comments,


Back to TF3 I didn't think of that and it makes so much sense!


Managed to scan the picture from Seaforth Publishings book 'A Shipyard at War' by Ian Johnston, on a side note its an excellent book to see HMS Barham, HMS Hood and HMS Repulse being built- absolutely amazing quality pictures.


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Nick B

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ballastanksian

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2015, 03:49:38 PM »

I do look forward to seeing her done up in the Razzle dazzle scheme, and now you have the contacts to the archives via your topic on HMS Kent in the Warships R&D to find the colours and pattern.

The ultimate tie in would be to have a ground level layout that the ferry can load and unload trains from at the lakeside :-))
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raflaunches

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2015, 08:58:21 PM »

One of the plans is to display her with a loading ramp and a little railway scene and I had to include a dazzle scheme didn't I!
I've had a good read on the subject and like the idea of doing an early one partially because the latter version (rebuild) is a lot more complicated and access is a lot more restricting. Looking at a lot of railway wagons and carriages to see whats commercially available and what needs to be scratch-built. Don't think we're going to be sort of figures! :-))
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Nick B

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ballastanksian

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2015, 10:18:44 PM »

Certainly not Nick!

I can reccomend WD Models for figures. I designed much of the Narrow gauge stuff and lorries, but the figures are sculpted by a true genius.

www.wdmodels.com/
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raflaunches

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2015, 03:25:07 PM »

Thanks Ian


They look fantastic, really like the look of the truck, might be adding a few to the ferry. %)
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Nick B

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ballastanksian

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2015, 08:39:32 PM »

A few Dennises or AECs would look the part.
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raflaunches

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2015, 08:55:11 PM »

Dad's decided to have a mixed load, a train with three carriages, some wagons, and three or four trucks on flatbed wagons. He is going to get me to make the trucks and small models as he finds small scales difficult to build.
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Nick B

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ballastanksian

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2015, 12:15:04 PM »

I am sure the team effort will be impressive Nick.
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grendel

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2015, 04:16:56 PM »

Well after missing visiting my Dad last weekend as I had Flu, I went over this morning. after taking him shopping for the heavy shop at the supermarket, we came back and I plugged my trusty hard drive into his laptop. unfortunately this particular folder was one of his older compilations, and while he had the photos on the laptop, the rest of the documents had been hand typed. not wanting to be thwarted we set to scanning the typewritten pages, and he also dug out some of his rarer publications that mentioned the ferries and we scanned in some relevant pages from those too.
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grendel

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2015, 04:29:09 PM »

and some more pictures, with a couple of word documents
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grendel

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Re: Admiralty Train Ferry Number 3
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2015, 04:36:14 PM »

and the scanned typewritten pages
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