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Author Topic: Couple more boat tragedies  (Read 10691 times)

Brian60

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Couple more boat tragedies
« on: January 04, 2015, 06:13:36 AM »

A big car transport has gone aground in the Solent, fortunately with the crew safely off overnight. Then a partial sinking off Scotland, floating perpendicular in the sea, just the bows showing.

The last one I find really odd, what would cause an accident like that where the crew and even the epirbs haven't sent out a distress? Its not like a plane that drops out of the sky quickly, a boat accident like that you would have some warning and time to get off a mayday surely?

wicker

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2015, 08:03:21 AM »

It was not very good in the Pentland Firth at the time and where I think the incident happened there can be big lumps of water with wind in the face of the tide. Where she was found 24 hour after that incident was east of the Pentland Skerries rocks. I was on the shore on the south side of the firth at that time in John O Groats
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BarryM

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2015, 08:46:21 AM »

If news reports are to be believed, the Cypriot registered vessel in the Pentland Firth was carrying cement which I would expect to be bagged. If the cargo shifted suddenly in bad weather, then she could have gone over very quickly with no time for a Mayday and a tragic outcome for the crew. Why no EPIRB signal was broadcast is open to similar speculation.

What will be interesting is how they deal with removal of the wreck.
Barry M
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slug

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2015, 08:54:28 AM »

all so sad to the start of the new year...the ship in the pentland firth is a self loading and unloading bulk cement carrier...seen her a couple of times in Immingham docks regards tony
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Brian60

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2015, 12:32:23 PM »

If its a cement carrier than it could have been an explosion. Cement is known to do that when it gets damp, I think the technical term is exothermic reaction, but I stand to be corrected on that  O0

DavieTait

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2015, 02:56:28 PM »

Second photo shows she was almost horizontal to start with so must've gone over very very quickly , she must've started to sink stern first just after being found, RIP lads

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-30670842
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Davie Tait,
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wicker

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2015, 04:13:50 PM »

reports now say the vessel has sunk but tug still in area east of the Pentland Skerry
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Netleyned

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2015, 04:19:35 PM »

It does seem that the EPIRB's fitted on quite a few vessels
that have foundered recently have failed to alert the Coastguard.
Surely a case for investigation.
RIP lads, and my thoughts are with your Families.

Ned
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DavieTait

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2015, 07:23:43 PM »

Saying now it was a deliberate grounding to avoid capsize , means she wasn't ballasted properly or didn't have her cargo stowed to even out the load side to side

http://news.sky.com/story/1402068/crew-grounded-stricken-ship-after-capsize-risk
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BailingBen

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2015, 07:26:37 PM »

.i imagine the second incident was just badly stowed cargo , wind over tide chucks it around and suddenly shes over before a mayday can be sent , epirbs have to hit the water to activate , so if the crew wernt wearing them , or the ships epirb was somewhere that stayed dry when she went over , they wouldn't activate anyway , on depends where they were , if the crew were off deck and had them on their lifejackets in a watertight locker or compartment then they wouldn't activate , i do wonder weather any crew are inside the boat , in an air pocket or something , even if they were theyd be dead now anyway 
 RIP


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BailingBen

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2015, 07:28:35 PM »

as for the car carrier according to another paper report that was a steering malfunction, and she was heading to germany so wouldn't have thought she had many cars on her , the ship also had water ballast tanks if the load was loose they could have used them to stabilize
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triumphjon

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2015, 08:18:43 PM »

seeing the number of car transporters heading south on the A34 last teusday night / wednesday morning there are probably quite a number of new land rovers on board the now striken vessel on the bramble bank , lets hope the vessel isnt holed and it cargo damaged , good to hear the whole crew and two pilots have got off the vessel
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2015, 08:44:50 PM »

Quote
as for the car carrier according to another paper report that was a steering malfunction, and she was heading to germany so wouldn't have thought she had many cars on her , the ship also had water ballast tanks if the load was loose they could have used them to stabilize

There is a report on another forum which suggests as follows;

"...the vessel never suffered any loss of propulsion or steerage nor was it any kind of pilot or navigational error. Early indications are that poor ballast/bunker tank management could be to blame. A large amount of bunker fuel was allowed to drain from the port side over to starboard at the moment the vessel was negotiating the turn to port around the west bramble cardinal buoy. This, combined with slack ballast tanks caused the vessel to take on a very pronounced list to starboard.

 ...she had made a full 180 degree turn round to port and was listing at approx 50 degrees. The pilot deliberately beached the car carrier in an effort to avoid a potential capsize situation.

 ...it's important to stress how calm and collected the pilot remained throughout the whole incident. He was the last person to be airlifted off the stricken vessel and deserves the utmost respect for his behaviour".

Colin
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BailingBen

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2015, 08:48:43 PM »

so it was the ballast tanks , what a cock up
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DavieTait

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2015, 10:28:10 PM »

1 soon to be EX-Ships "Master" for something like this to happen , very poor ship management for this to happen
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derekwarner

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2015, 12:47:15 AM »

mmmmmmmmmmmm

Water ballast transfer is under the command of the vessels Master via ....deck officers
Fuel oil transfer is the responsibility of the Chief Engineers delegation

Do these car carriers have computer controlled high speed/volume ballast transfer for continual vessel stability? ...if so, is it used when making 90 degree turns in relatively clam water?
Is it common practice to have a Pilot on board at this location?

Interestingly, it appears that the QE11 grounded on the same 'Bramble sand Bank' in 2008...did this get similar coverage?....I certainly don't remember an inquisition  <*< ......... Derek
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BailingBen

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2015, 01:21:15 AM »

pilots in this area are mandatory for boats over 60m i think ?
its still classed as southampton waters (comes under the harbour rules if that makes sense?)
she wouldve been aproaching a massive dog leg in the channel , whilst sailing past this area ive seen many a ship go around , some of the bigger ones have even had tugs , but all find it hard to turn it , factor in the tide which can get up to 10 knots on a high spring , you have to know what youre doing even on a small sailing yacht or you can easily find yourself in a sticky position




 
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Brian60

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2015, 07:50:14 AM »

Internet news from her owners says she was only carrying a third of her total vehicles so was not overloaded, 1400 vehicles aboard. They also said it was a consensus between the master and the pilot to ground the ship for safety and away from the shipping lane.

If thats correct than the harbour authorities must have known and been involved in the decision. The pilot must have been in contact with them before doing so surely?

BarryM

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2015, 08:47:41 AM »

"Pilots advice - Master's orders". The ultimate decision for the safety of the vessel is down to the Master not the harbour authority (who it was probably too late to consult), nor the Pilot and the Master alone takes responsibility for all his actions.

It sounds as if she left her berth in an unstable condition and subsequent manoeuvring highlighted this. Thus the decision by the Master to ground her because ballasting would have taken too long to bring her to a safe condition of stability.

Barry M
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2015, 09:25:49 AM »

The Bramble Bank is a well known hazard, even in yacht you have to keep clear at certain states of the tide. Large vessels have been grounding on it for may years including the QE2 and the old Queen Mary. As it is soft sand it is usually more embarrassing than dangerous. However the severe list on the car carrier does pose some tricky salvage problems!

Colin
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Neil

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2015, 11:40:52 AM »

although smaller...great reminiscence of the Riverdance that went aground on Bispham beach a few years ago............I was scoffed at on Ships nostalgia when I said the same day she grounded that she would have to be cut up on site, because of the nature of the bank, the shallowness of the sea around her and the fact that soft sand gave no purchase for salvage tackle to hold???

I don't think she with her cargo is going to get off there in a hurry, if at all. {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
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plug

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2015, 01:13:16 PM »

Maybe he did'nt want to bump into the Richard montgomery, or had he already passed it!

regards Jack.
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Netleyned

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2015, 01:19:03 PM »

Long way from Sheerness imho {-) %%

Ned
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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2015, 01:30:14 PM »

Thanks Ned, was'nt too sure where it was

regards Jack.
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Liverbudgie

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Re: Couple more boat tragedies
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2015, 03:15:48 PM »

With regard to the Hoegh Osaka a similar thing happened to one of these vessels in the north pacific some years ago when the they were transferring ballast and the vessel heeled 45 degrees to port and stayed there.  The crew was taken off but one of the salvage was killed. She was eventually towed to the West coast of Canada and the cargo unloaded and written off.

All in all it's not been a good few days in the maritime World for a large bulker bound Malaya - China sank off the Vietnamese coast on Friday to date there has only been one of the crew found out of twenty or so men.

http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/25152/rescued-chef-of-bulk-jupiter-refuses-to-

LB
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