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Author Topic: Bilge keels  (Read 6053 times)

Brian60

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Bilge keels
« on: January 29, 2015, 06:43:57 PM »

I'm at the stage now on my build when I have to decide whether to add bilge keels or not.

My problem is that the plans that originally came with the grp hull did not show bilge keels and the rebuild using G.A plans of a more modern vessel don't show bilge keels either.

However just about every model of tugs and anchor handlers can be seen with bilge keels. So the question is are all  vessels of this type built with bilge keels or does it differ with build yard? If its factually correct  to have them, then I would add them.

BarryM

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2015, 07:48:56 PM »

Can't think of one without bilge keels but which class are you modelling?

Barry M
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Brian60

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2015, 08:54:40 AM »

 Barry this is the info I have for her...

It simply gives the class as 'ABS' searching the internet I can't find any more info than I already have which is quite scant really. Possibly because they mainly operate in the far east there are not many photo's about (compared with craft operating in the north sea)

I've looked at lots of images on google but I can't find any vessel that has a similar superstructure at all- thinking if I could find one built by a different yard I would have more luck at getting more in depth info. It was originally built for Havila in Malaysia, but is on long term lease to POSH ( a subsidiary of Havila) in Singapore, currenly moored off the Ivory Coast in Africa for the last week or so.

Brian.

Fastfaz

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2015, 09:59:15 AM »

   Hi, looking at the style of the boat I would fit bilge keels. It looks smiliar to the Yorkshireman that I had and that would lean alarmingly in the turns. My lowgarth has bilge keels and turns really well it looks just like a real tug and is very stable. If you decide to fit the keels the best method is to cut slots into the hull that accept tabs on the actual keel itself then fix the keel inside the hull (small timber either side then car body filler smoothed off), then when its cured overnight add a fillet of body filler t each side of each keel smoothed down prior to painting. This method is very strong. Hope this helps.
      Cheers,
          Peter. :-))
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BarryM

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2015, 12:09:59 PM »

Brian,
When I mentioned 'class', I referred to the shipyard class, e.g. Ulstein 75 or whatever.  "ABS" refers to 'American Bureau of Shipping', the Classification Society with which she is registered.

Would that vessel have bilge keels? - Most definitely.

Regards

Barry M
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NFMike

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2015, 12:52:43 PM »

In researching my AHTS build I've accumulated some photos and diagrams, some of which show the underwater parts of various AHTS.

The two diagrams don't show any bilge keels at all.
Of four photos, one has significant bilge keels, two have very small (probably about 6" deep) bilge keels and the fourth is hard to tell for sure but I think has small ones.

If I was going to add bilge keels to mine (though I'm not) I'd go with some about 3mm deep along the straight part of the hull (1:50th model).

The pics etc were lifted from the web, so I can't republish them here, but I can e-mail them to you if you want Brian.

norry

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2015, 01:53:12 PM »

...Hi Guys...

When looking for information on a particular ship it is often useful to put the ships IMO Number into Google...Sometimes more info is stored using this number which is unique to this ship...

In this particular case the IMO Number is on the front of the superstructure of the vessel in the picture...

...Best Regards...Norry...
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BarryM

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2015, 02:14:32 PM »

It's also on the spec that Brian has put up - 9515515. She may be only six years away from the PRC/Malaysian yards but the design look older. A bit of Ulstein, a bit of Smit, certainly not modern but I would be very surprised if she didn't have bilge keels.
Barry M
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Xtian29

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2015, 02:46:23 PM »

I'm 99% sure she have bilge keels - very cheap and effective


Xtian
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Brian60

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2015, 07:04:46 PM »

Thanks all guys for your input. I do have the yard number for it but searching both that and of course the IMO number only turns up the information I already have.

I thought the hull and superstructure looked as though it came from Ulstein yards, however they all seem to have the superstructure over two levels and then the wheelhouse on the top, whereas this has only one level and the wheelhouse.

But again thanks everyone, I'll make the bilge keels tomorrow.

Xtian29

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2015, 10:40:06 PM »


Quote
I thought the hull and superstructure looked as though it came from Ulstein yards, however they all seem to have the superstructure over two levels and then the wheelhouse on the top, whereas this has only one level and the wheelhouse.

There is some UT suppliers with the same deck arrangement - ie the UT720 Pacific B Class   http://www.swire.com.sg/getattachment/0bd6bc20-759f-4d6f-82bb-8f9740304851/M-V-Pacific-Buccaneer.aspx

But the Posh Venture is not a UT design, she looks like a chinese imitation

Xtian
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Brian60

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2015, 11:42:32 AM »

Xian its a malaysian imitation  :D

BarryM

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2015, 12:07:39 PM »

To be accurate, built in China but finished off in Malaysia.

Barry M
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Xtian29

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2015, 12:27:39 PM »

Thanks Barry for this info I didn't understood why talking about Malaysia as





Xtian
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BarryM

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2015, 12:57:58 PM »

It's very common for one country's shipyard to do the steelwork and another's to do the final fitting-out. Thus she could have been started in China and completed in Malaysia. It's not clear from the various reports if this was the case or whether she was completed in China and the Malaysian reference then comes in because the management company is Malayan-based.

Note that she is also Cypriot flagged but could serve her entire life without ever coming into Cypriot waters. That's the convoluted world of shipping!

I once sailed on a Liberian flag vessel, owned by a Bermuda registered company with British officers and Chinese crew and that's not an uncommon state of affairs.

Barry M
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Xtian29

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2015, 01:26:02 PM »

Hello


Yep I well know most of this "global bizarreness" and it's sometime hard to know from where are the ships - some block from Poland assembled inGermany and finished in Norway ... then on the book it's "built in Norway"


But it's the same for almost everythings now


Xtian


 
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slug

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2015, 01:55:06 PM »

just googled guanhai shipbuilding p.r china and up came build details of posh venture with plans.....any help...cant see any bilge keels....tony
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Brian60

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2015, 05:57:35 PM »

just googled guanhai shipbuilding p.r china and up came build details of posh venture with plans.....any help...cant see any bilge keels....tony

I already have those Tony. Mine came from the Havila company in Norway, but they are the same plans on both sites.

Having said that when I searched for guanhai shipbuilding a couple of weeks back, I got a holding company website, showing guanhai sells everything from electronics to ships.

deadwood

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2015, 08:49:27 AM »

I wonder where my posting has left? Deleted without a comment.

Was it deemed inappropriate?

But neither did I offend or insult anybody, nor did I post copyrighted material, nor was my posting off topic.

This is how you scare off users from this forum.
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norry

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2015, 09:15:39 AM »

...Hi deadwood...

There was a glitch with the forum the other day and all of that days postings seem to have been lost...

I posted on another topic and that dissapeared too...

Repost your  posting and all should be fine...

...Best Regards...Norry...
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Xtian29

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2015, 09:21:32 AM »

It's a pitty, I read this message (of course prior it disapear) it was interresting and pertinant.


Xtian




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deadwood

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2015, 09:40:50 AM »

Oh, so I have to apologize for wrongly suspecting some moderator's nefarious intervention. :embarrassed:
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BarryM

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2015, 09:44:01 AM »

Brian,
This disappeared down the electronic plughole and so I'll repeat it.

It would be very, very, unusual for any monohull of any size and particularly this type of vessel, not to have bilge keels. If you search on "bilge keels" in the Forum you will find various ideas on attachment. The one described below is only my method.

Bilge keels always follow the turn of the bilge and their outer edge is normally parallel to it. They should not protrude beyond the line of the ship's side or below the keel. That will give you some idea of sizes.  For the lack of a GA drawing depicting the keels, I suggest that they would start somewhere between L/3 and L/4 from the forefoot and about the same from aft. If it looks right then it probably is.

Riveted ships employed an angle bar riveted to the hull with the actual bilge keel formed from a flat bulb plate lap-riveted to the angle. This made repair much easier.

Welded ships such as you are modelling, employ a flat plate edge-welded to the hull with a bulb plate lap welded to it. (See drawing)

The ends of the bilge keels are always tapered.

My method was to cut a slot in the hull and insert a piece of stiff card, temporarily held in place. The curve of the hull and thus the curve of the bilge keel can then be drawn on it. This shape was transferred to aluminium sheet allowing for the keel protruding within the hull to be cut vertically and  bent over as tags. Once happy with the shape, slide it in place, bend over the tags and fill/glass it in place to retain it and restore the small loss of strength produced by the slot.  The external look of the keel can be improved by applying flat strip and half-round to simulate the steel section. I wouldn't bother trying  to simulate the lap weld attachment unless you really want to excel on detailing.

I hope this helps.
Barry M
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Brian60

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2015, 01:08:47 PM »

Thanks all for the replies, I think I got most of them, including those that went MIA the other day.

TugCowboy

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Re: Bilge keels
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2015, 01:09:35 PM »

Thanks for the diagram BarryM, very useful.

Alex
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