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Author Topic: Searchlights  (Read 6274 times)

Geoff

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Searchlights
« on: February 03, 2015, 02:05:07 pm »

I'm in the process of building Iron Duke to 1/96 scale and dhe had twin searchlights. I want to make these in brass for detail and effect but so far have been unable to find a detailed picture or plan of the twin set up.
 
Anybody got any ideas where I can find some pictures as the twin was in general use at that time. Its probably obvious to someone but so far I have failed.
 
Thanks
 
Geoff
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TailUK

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2015, 03:41:51 pm »

The best source of reference I've seen is Conway's Anatomy of the Ship, HMS Iron Duke.  If there are drawings anywhere they're probably in that!  I don't have my copy to hand but I'll check it asap and have a look.
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Geoff

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2015, 03:44:10 pm »

Iron Duke! Iwasn't aware they did that ship. I know they did Dreadnought and Warspite and a whole lot of others but not ID. Interestingly it may be in Fuso as the IJN was modelled on the RN particualrly in the early years so I'll have a look there.
 
Cheers
 
Geoff
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TailUK

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2015, 04:22:50 pm »

I'm wondering now if I haven't got round my neck!  I may confusing the Dreadnought book with Iron Duke although I could swear I've seen a Conway book about Iron Duke.  I'll have a look when I get home It may be another publisher I'm thinking of.
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Geoff

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2015, 04:28:21 pm »

There is a Polish one out there somewhere but I have not been able to track it down!
 
I went through Dreadnought and Warspite last night but they only show single searchlights so didn't help but as above I will try Fuso and maybe the "Battlecrusiers" book I have from Seaforth publishing but I don't recall any specific pictures.
 
I should have something somewhere as my book collection is over 200 volumes but I have no idea where I might find such a picture!
 
Does anyone else know wher I might find the Polish book? I have seen a picture as it was shown in the background of Ron H's ID build.
 
 
Cheers
 
Geoff
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TailUK

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2015, 06:14:37 pm »

I found this while I was looking for the Polish book.
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=20253&start=100
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ballastanksian

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2015, 07:19:53 pm »

I see that the Blueprints site has a plan of HMS Lion that shows several twin mounts and so your idea of looking at Battlecruisers is worth developing.

http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/ships/ships-uk/43420/view/hms_lion_%28battlecruiser%29_%281912%29/
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Geoff

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2015, 01:23:00 pm »

I checked through the Battlecrusier boob (By Roberts) and found a 3-D schematic of Lion's superstructure which does show the twin searchlights but the image is very small. Thinking laterally I remember a friend shared some copies of parts of an Orion class battlehip original plans at 1/64 scale and sure enough they are shown on there as well. They look very simple so I may be able to build from them but I'll continue searching.
 
Cheers
 
Geoff
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ballastanksian

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2015, 09:43:29 pm »

Good luck Geoff, I hope you find plenty of references. If possible, they may make a good seller as a simple kit of parts for other ship modellers to use.
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Bowwave

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2015, 09:31:15 pm »

Geoff  could you PM me I might be able to help .
Bowwave
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Geoff

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2015, 08:30:05 am »

Bowwave,
 
Thank you for the offer which appreciated. I just tried to send to a PM but I'm not good with computers so let me know here if it didn't come through.
 
Cheers
 
Geoff
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Bowwave

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2015, 10:43:13 am »

Hi Geoff   Picture sent , hope it helps
Bowwave
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Geoff

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2015, 02:07:12 pm »

Bowwave,
 
Thank you I got the picture fine. It does help but throws up another puzzle as I can't see how the searchlights would elevate vertically with the two horizontal supports! Hmm still a bit of a puzzle but I'm further forward than I was.
 
Thanks
 
Geoff
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ballastanksian

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2015, 08:27:53 pm »

Can I have a look? An extra pair of Mince pies might help crack this puzzle.
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Geoff

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2015, 01:32:23 pm »

Okay,
 
lets see if this comes through okay as I have re-sized it smaller.
 
Cheers
 
Geoff
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Ian K

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2015, 03:59:59 pm »

Hi Geoff,

The photo doesn't give much away, regarding elevation of the lights.

Guessing and Using a bit of lateral thinking, they would rotate through the vertical on the center pivot bar.
The bottom bar would be connected to the column, in a through bearing, linking both lamps, which would have a small toothed gear engaging in a quadrant gear on each of the search light casings. Possibly on the inner faces of both casings
this in theory, would elevate both lamps at the same time,and to the same angle.

just my thoughts

regards

Ian
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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2015, 04:10:57 pm »

I'm thinking, why need elevation?

Ned
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Geoff

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2015, 04:17:02 pm »

I had pondered that as well but I am assuming because the ship will roll from side to side and there could be occassion to light up something near by and if you have a target in sight the last thing you would want to do would be to point the searchlight at the sky at the critical moment!
 
I think it would make more sense for the lights to pivot on their center line which would suggest the upper bracket is the hinge and the lower one somehow operates the elevation but I can't figure out how or why. I have also found some alternative plans but the scale is small so can't clearly see but they seem to have the one pivot point on the center line.
 
I can't see any mechamism or hand wheels either!
 
It may of course be that the model searchlights are representative and not entirely accurate but I remain unconvinced of that as all the other details appear accurate!
 
Geoff
 
 
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ballastanksian

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2015, 09:23:58 pm »

The image does not provide any major highlight other than what Ian K said. The higher cross beam could be a cross brace to support them both as they will be heavy.
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Pondweed

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2015, 08:36:02 pm »

Hi
there was at least 3 types of twin 24" searchlight in use on Edwardian capital ships, dreadnoughtproject wiki lists Iron Duke as having "Crompton's 24-in twin projectors". I was once sent drawings of all 3 types taken from an official admiralty book but being endlessly stupid, I dismissed all 3 as they didn't match the simplified version of the s/light as drawn on my plan. I wish I could go back in time...

Anyway, as you've probably found,  photographs for whatever type of s/light you need are extremely rare as the units are always obscured behind a canvas dodger or wrapped in a canvas cover of their own. I looked through the images I have and found 4 that give you details or clues to how they worked.

The first one with the unit covered in canvas shows, imho, the two lamps at different elevations proving that the lamps could be elevated independantly of each other.

The other 3 show the twin unit in the best detail I have.

... and lastly there's an advert for a Comptons light.



p.s. I have included the Johnsons s/light article and the twin unit from New Zealand as from the vague clues under the canvas, that's what I think it may be like... i.e. each lamp supported by 4 legs. YMMV.
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Geoff

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2015, 09:06:46 pm »

wow, thank you I will study the pictures and see if I can figure it all out but this is significantly helpfull not least of which it does show a rangefinder on the rear conning tower which previous written details have confirmed but the plans have failed to show.

Thanks

Geoff
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ballastanksian

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2015, 09:29:47 pm »

Wow, a swivelling mount for two swivlling projectors. That is certainly as practical as it gets.

This is a great forum, as somebody has been ferreting about for ages to find that information.

TTFN, Ian:O)
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Pondweed

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Re: Searchlights
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2015, 05:59:47 am »

wow, thank you I will study the pictures and see if I can figure it all out but this is significantly helpfull not least of which it does show a rangefinder on the rear conning tower which previous written details have confirmed but the plans have failed to show.

Thanks

Geoff

Took ages for it to sink in that the plans we are using are copies from the original GA plans which are, unless someone has altered them for the modellor, a working drawing showing a statment of intent... 'this is the ship we aim to build and it will have these fittings where shown' type of thing. This will be drawn like 4 or 5 yrs in advance and the author won't know what new technologies or improvments are going to be fitted, he's just showning that they Admiralty want an 'x' there and a 'y' there.

You mention the rangefinder: fire control was in constant flux prior to and during ww1.

Somme images that may be usful. The twin lamp on Tiger may be a safer pattern to follow as she was more of the Iron Duke estimates era than New Zealand.

Thee cable holders on ID are the same as on Lion, Repulse and apparently Marlborough
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