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Author Topic: White Varnish?  (Read 4777 times)

Bob K

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White Varnish?
« on: February 18, 2015, 05:37:50 PM »

I need a second opinion here please.  Last week I bought a small tin Rustlins outdoor clear varnish. satin clear.  However, on opening the tin, and even after loads of stirring, the liquid inside is white.
Is it supposed to be like that, or should I take it back and change it?  Normally varnish is clear.

Dare not apply to my ship without being sure.  Advice please.
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TailUK

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 05:43:09 PM »

Sounds like it's a water based varnish. Personally I'd be reluctant to use anything water based on the outside of a boat.  I'd take it back and get a good quality Polyurethane Varnish that's solvent based. Check to see if you wash the brushes in water and that will mean it's water based.
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Netleyned

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 06:42:24 PM »

Does it say wash brush in water?

If not  it will be ok
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Colin Bishop

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 06:55:29 PM »

If it is milky in the tin then it will dry clear but it is water based and therefore not as tough as solvent based polyurethane varnish which is what you really need on the exterior of your model. The water based stuff is liable to 'bloom' and usually just places a 'film' on your model which is quite likely to peel off as it doesn't properly bond to the underlying finish.

Colin
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inertia

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2015, 06:57:52 PM »

Bob
The guys have it. I use both types and the white stuff is the quick-dry water-based stuff. It's great for varnishing boat stands and carrying boxes but I wouldn't use it on the outside of a model. Rustins solvent-based clear satin is excellent stuff but I can't seem to find it locally in smallish quantities, so I have to resort to Google etc.
Dave M
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Bob K

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2015, 07:07:04 PM »

Thanks for the 'heads up' guys. Yes, it did say wash brushes in water.

So, I just shot over to our big B&Q and looked everywhere for Polyurathane varnish. Nothing, of any kind.
I spoke with their paints and varnish specialist.  He told me they no longer stock Polyurathane based products, indeed no oil based varnishes will be allowed by the end of this year.

ALL varnishes MUST by then be water based.  Another 'from on high' directive.

Daft IMHO 
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Brian60

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2015, 07:16:42 PM »

The colouring is an additive so you can see where you have brushed previously. It's also added to white paint (household) nowadays, you open a tin of white and get a shock when its pink! You put it on the wall and as it dries the colour dissapears and leaves it white.

Colin Bishop

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2015, 07:24:11 PM »

Polyurethane varnishes are becoming harder to find. It is a good idea to stock up now while you can still get them as the replacement water based variety are far inferior.

The same thing has happened with interior house paints which after drying remain soft, while if you have bought a new car recently it will inevitably suffer from serious paint chips which would never have happened when you had cellulose paints and don't even think about getting anywhere near a gritting lorry!

Colin
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TailUK

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2015, 07:26:49 PM »

You could try on line for a varnish like "Goldspar" or a 2 pack varnish called "Perfection".  These are full boat varnishes  so might need to be thinned to go on nice.  I would imagine that it's B&Q's higher ups who have decided to stop solvent sales to avoid the paperwork.  You're probably still going to be able to buy it for full sized boats through chandlers and the like.  the only problem with high quality varnishes is the price.
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Bob K

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2015, 07:32:57 PM »

I couldn't get it in my local hardware store either.  I bought a compromise - Ronseal Outdoor Varnish, 'clear waterproof protection', Satin.  It is oil based but not Polyurathane. Slightly butterscotch in colour but said to dry clear.

Well said Colin !  Suggest stock up now, whilst you can still find the right stuff.  Remember lead paint?  Wonderful stuff, but long since extinct.
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Jerry C

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2015, 07:39:53 PM »

I bought some solvent based yacht varnish from B&Q last week. I only needed a small amount but they only had 500mL cans or bigger. The lady said that from next year it will be illegal to sell solvent based varnish in the UK. However she also said that water based has improved a lot since it's introduction, and that by the time the ban comes into force it will be on a par. I'll believe it when I see it. It's fair to say however that once cured, water based paints are not affected by immersion in water as like cement they cure rather than dry.
Jerry.

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2015, 10:01:58 PM »

i use ronseal   varnish's  both satin & matt there not water based  'i have varnished the hull of my trawler 16years ago & its not flaked dis-coloured or cracked ' that includes under the water line to  :-))  it realy doe's what is say's on the tin!!
regards ray
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Colin Bishop

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2015, 10:46:42 PM »

Quote
i use ronseal   varnish's  both satin & matt there not water based 

Actually Ronseal are now marketing water based varnishes which confuses things, especially as the original polyurethane solvent versions are now less easy to get hold of!

The polyurethane solvent varnishes have the advantage that they can be applied over just about everything without reacting and can be brushed on or thinned down for airbrush use. It's certainly worth investing in the matt and satin versions of these if you can find them, preferably the interior versions as the exterior versions have UV filters which give a slightly yellow tint which is noticeable over light colours.
As well as Ronseal, you can get similar products from Blackfriars, Rustins and even Wilko.

Buy now before they go!

Another tip. If you are in the market for white or coloured exterior paint then ignore the stuff in the DiY stores and go to a marine chandlers and buy something like International Toplac yacht enamel. It is more expensive but it is intended for painting boats and will last much longer on domestic applications inside and out. Goes on well too.

Colin
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Brian60

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2015, 02:44:22 PM »

It's the same with impact adhesives. The common one being evo Stick, this used to be solvent based but due to EU regulations it is now water based and to me very inferior.

Fortunately as with everything they don't like, the Spanish tend to ignore regulations until they are actually in front of a judge (or the EU courts) So I can still buy it in tubes and 300ml tins at any of the hardware shops as a solvent based product.

GAZOU

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2015, 08:21:03 PM »

Use of the vitrificateur for the wooden parquets.
That resists everything
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tigertiger

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2015, 04:38:43 AM »

It is important to be careful with terminology.
You need to ask for an oil based varnish or oil based PU.
I am currently using water based polyurethane varnish, and so asking for PU is probably not enough.

I have been using the water based stuff recently, on the orders of SWMBO. I learned several things about this product. The main advantages are environmental, health and quick drying. But there are minuses.


Firstly, the water based stuff does dry quicker. As a result brush marks have less time to 'slump' out.
However, it can be thinned with water for spraying.
Second, you can get very hard water based PUs now, the downside is that they cannot really be applied below 15 degrees C.
Thirdly, combine the brush marks with the notion of the hard stuff. More sanding. However, you can buff out with 3m scourers and an orbital sander.
Fourthly, when applying to bare wood you also should use a special base coat, which is not cheap either.
Additionally, but not finally, many stains are oil based, and so there can be issues with water/oil not mixing. This can be overcome if you leave any stain for 3-4 days to completely go off, and then clean the surface with white spirit (mineral spirit) until all brown residue is removed. Then the water based PU should go on no problems.

EU and US are moving over to water based products. For more than 10 years, in Europe, there has been a lot of use of water based by industrial decorators, due to occupational health of the decorators I think. It will get harder to find oil based products in hardware stores.  :((
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flashtwo

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2015, 07:41:04 AM »

Hi,

I've made good use of Tonkinoise varnish, see

http://www.letonkinoisvarnish.uk/VarMain.html

Its a bit expensive, but gives superb results even using a brush. The company is often represented at model shows and steam fairs where they will deliver your order to save postage.

Ian
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Bob K

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2015, 09:33:56 AM »

I certainly started something here !    Interesting though.
For the record the Ronseal I eventually used really soaks into the wood, and has slightly lifted a couple of areas which needed rework. It has also slightly darkened the wood, despite being "clear satin".

Non polyurethane is not progress IMHO. 
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GAZOU

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Re: White Varnish?
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2015, 09:44:37 AM »

 ok2
To clean in the white spirit is a false good idea ...........
The white spirit is fat and stains certain wood

To dry-clean really it is necessary the acetone or the trichloréthylène if you find there.
Do not use the substitute of the trichloréthylène
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