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Author Topic: Thames Barge  (Read 20166 times)

Tom@Crewe

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Thames Barge
« on: July 23, 2007, 09:38:51 AM »

I have been planning putting a big toe into the scale sail side of things, and want something on easy side to start with, and I saw this at the lake side, I got chatting and it was scratch build from "Model Boat Magazine plans". But I did not get details to which and when. Can anyone help?

Has anyone else built one and have advice? or alternative plans (simple hull)
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MCR

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2007, 10:05:18 AM »

Check this out:    http://www.modelbarge.info/
Mark
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MikeK

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2007, 12:02:43 PM »

I don't know if Model Boats Plans still do the 1/48 tabletop plan of the Will Everard. I doubled it up to 1/24 and scratch built a working model. Came out ok. Also there is a 1/24 hull moulding available commercially but cannot remember by who. No doubt someone here will know.

Here's a couple of pics posted elsewhere on the forum :  http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2780.msg27940#msg27940

If you follow the thread both up the page and also to the following page there are more barge pictures

MikeK
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BJH

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2007, 12:54:37 PM »

Hi,


you could try having a look at      www.kingstonmouldings.com    and     www.waverlymodels.co.uk     


BJH
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2007, 01:07:51 PM »

Waverley Models do a 1:24 scale GRP hull and drawings. Length 48 inches beam 11 inches. 85 I think.
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2007, 01:10:10 PM »

This may help .  you need an"e"

http://www.waverleymodels.co.uk/

Peter
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Daryl

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2007, 01:12:07 PM »

You could try, www.modelbarge.info


Daryl
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RickF

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2007, 02:03:10 PM »

Hi Tom

Model Boat plan MM1187 20" simplified Thames Sailing Barge http://www.myhobbystore.com/ProductDetails/mcs/productID/2003/groupID/4/categoryID/75/v/439f2dbd-47bf-49ba-88ea-4f09551f291e

I bought a vac-formed hull about thirty years ago. It's about three foot long and maybe twice a year I get it down, do a couple of days work on it, then forget it for six months!

Apparently they are not that easy to sail. The above links to the model barge websites will probably give you all the info you need. If you can get hold of the "Will Everard" plans they are very detailed - I have a set - but the vessel is not typical of the average barge.

Rick
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Tom@Crewe

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2007, 02:32:07 PM »

It was realy the plan from Model boat magazine, for a simple build hull. I think it was said around 1999 and named kitty. it was also said this boat in the picture was a little wide compared to length against other maodels

I saw it sail and looked good to me, but I know nothing about scale sail as yet.

Its just a quick, easy and cheap build (scale boat) I want get it on the water see if I like it then go for something bigger and better
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Daryl

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2007, 02:44:08 PM »

 Kitty was a plan by Richard Webb, he has a web site  www.scalemodelboatyard.co.uk

Daryl
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Tester

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2007, 04:42:04 PM »

Hi Tom@Crewe

I'm sure I've got that plan in my plans file. Just found the plan, was in issue 581, barge looks to be 24" od.

You'r welcome to it if you want.. let me know

Richard
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Tom@Crewe

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2007, 01:36:01 PM »

Thanks for the offer Tester and yes please, send me an e-mail which is on my profile and I will send you my address.

Thanks again
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polobeer

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2007, 01:52:56 PM »

Dear Tom@Crewe,

What about trying the HFM Marine Thames Sailing Barge kit, available (I believe) from JoTiKa Ltd? LOA 863mm, Beam 171mm. It looks very nice...

Best wishes
Polobeer  ;)
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Tom@Crewe

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2007, 01:05:09 PM »

Well Tester you have done us proud, the plan and info got to me next day and the idea of building a Thames Barge has gone from an intresting idea to next project on the list (got to finish 'John H. Amos' First. few more weeks I hope).

Its Fantastic when you can come to Mayhem as a question and in a few days get it sorted. I'm sure as the build goes on there will be more questions!

Thank you very much Tester and all the others that offered help and advice



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Tom@Crewe

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2008, 04:20:10 PM »

The Kitty build is going well but.........

The plan calls for a servo to control the sails, can anyone recommend one, does it have to be more powerful?

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wideawake

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2008, 04:59:42 PM »

The Kitty build is going well but.........

The plan calls for a servo to control the sails, can anyone recommend one, does it have to be more powerful?



I would say yes in principle.  You then have to decide whether to use a sail arm servo (ie servo with ling arm to give you the required sheet travel or a sail winch with multi turn drum.   There may be useful info on the AMBO website www.modelbarge.info/ and at last a couple of barge bulders are on the forum including Ivor Bittle who has an excellent website with lots of info on model barges at www.ivorbittle.co.uk/  .   Your Kitty is a relatively small barge - most are built to a scale of 1:24 but the main sail will still pull pretty hard in a breeze. 

On my Billings Karoline i use a Hitec sail winch costing  around 21 as I prefer this way of operating to a sail arm.   On my Colin archer I shall use one of those for the main and two metal geared servos for the jib and/or fore sail using a channel mix to allow them to work together to haul the jib to port or starboard and sheet  in or out.   i shall use fairly stiff piano wire for the sail arms to allow a bit of give under extreme tension.   Using the brass bits from terminal block as sheet attachments  will also allow easy adjustment of the throw as they'll slide along the wires.

Cheers

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Tom@Crewe

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2008, 05:35:10 PM »

I have not exactly followed the Kitty plan.

I have stretched it to give it more scale proportions. its now beam 185mm as plan but length 875mm.
Scaled up the Masts, and Sails to match the new length using a full sized barge drawing.
Built it in ply not styrene.

I have missed off some things like the winches, companion ways and detailing. this is my first sail boat so I just want to get it to water.
If I enjoy sailing I will get something better and scale, with all the detailing.

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andrewh

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2008, 04:23:23 PM »

Tom,

I sail a Kitty (my first R/c boat, first yacht, first scratchbuild) sail servo is a perfectly standard servo with arms extended both ways to about 4 inches both sides.

One side works the main (with double travel) and the other side works all 3 jibs (Yes, purists I KNOW they are called different names on a TSB).  The men of AMBO are perfectly clear that you do not need to control any of the headsails, and Richard Cheyney, I seem to remember, controls only the vangs  - not any sheets on any sail.

If I were rigging from scratch I would use 2 standard servos, one for the main with a long extension (under the main hatch) and another in the fore-hatch for the headsails.  I have 2 sheets on the foresail and jib (one each side)  led through the bulwarks to the servo arm and just one on the flying jib (Jib topsail) thru a ring at the hounds and down to the Servo.

Pics available if they would help you

Nice job, BTW - thanks for showing us.  Do you have motor fitted?

andrew 
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andrewh

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2008, 04:49:21 PM »

Comme ca :}


Mainsheet at the top - the attachment is to an eye on the coaming, then thru an eye on the end of the arm and out through a red tube to the mainsail (via traveller on the main horse)

Jib sheets at the bottom - five in total being pulled directly from the arm

Overall looks like this:


Let me know anything you need by way of help
andrew
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tigertiger

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2008, 10:16:04 AM »

Hi Andrew

Do your lee boards operate?
Or do you use a drop keel?
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andrewh

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2008, 11:03:34 AM »

Tt

My leeboards operate very nicely, thanks, considering my age :}
The barge has a plug-in keel with a cast lead bulb at the bottom.  The pic above is without it, of course

Pic of the keel in place - shape is generally as plan, but made of 6mm styrene


Sailing pic

andrew

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tigertiger

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2008, 11:06:09 AM »

Nice sailing pic,
Boats always look best on the water.
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wideawake

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2008, 12:34:59 PM »

I think that the general experience of the AMBo skippers is that scale leeboards don't work effectively in the non-scale seas and wind we sail in :-(   OTOH the drop keel is essentil due to the flat bottom and shallow draft of a barge.

When Lady Dahne comes to the top of my list I intend to make the leeboards functional just so it looks right.

Guy
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tigertiger

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2008, 01:00:14 PM »

I agree on the scaling issues with the leeboards, and the need for a drop keel.

As an aside, I know nothing about how the Thames barges plied thier trade. The barges here in China may have little draft when empty, but are loaded up until they have little if any freebaord at all. I have seen some that appear to be up/down to the scuppers and are maybe relying on the hatch coamings to keep them afloat. I would imagine that in the pre-regulated days of river haulage, similar practices were common on the Thames.

Did the full size barges heel, or was this something that the skipper would try his hardest to prevent; assuming payload was more valued than speed.

Any insights would be greatly recieved.
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andrewh

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Re: Thames Barge
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2008, 01:52:25 PM »

TT
When they were full loaded it was said that a robin could perch on the deck and take a drink over the side - so yes they were loaded to the max. 

I have only sailed moderately loaded TSBs (full size) with relatively large crews and indeed they heel, and the Leeboards take enormous pressure - you could not raise one unless you luffed up and took the pressure off it.
In their working life they are the largest cargo vessel to be worked by two crew (and a dog)

One of these days I will make a 1/24th barge - about 48 inches long, and give her working leeboards (but probably with a keel as well) and I would also hope to have control of the vangs.  The running backstays I will not worry about!

Some of the big AMBO barges race with keels, some have internal ballast and some have a lead pipe hung close to the hull (outside) - perhaps it depends on the depth of water

andrew
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