Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: electronize x 2  (Read 4870 times)

Klunk

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,564
  • If you know who I am, please remind me!!
  • Location: luton, beds
electronize x 2
« on: April 05, 2015, 07:52:27 PM »

A member bought a tug during the week. inside were 2 x electronize controllers. he could not get any control over the motors, they either went full ahead or full astern. summary next
2 motors controlled via tank steering on the tx

1 x 43hx
1 x 43x
I believe the 43 hx has the BEC on it as there is a switch to turn it on.
planet t5 tx/rx
i have tried to set it to neutral but to no avail, although the relay does switch to reverse.
I think the main transistor is dead to cause this. Could anyone confirm this, or offer an alternative thesis!
Logged
SECRETARY - LUTON AND DISTRICT MODEL BOAT CLUB
WARWICK IS AROUND THE CORNER........WHO IS UP FOR TRICKS ON PHIL?

Stavros

  • Guest
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2015, 08:51:03 PM »

ACTion all the way and ditch the elctronise simples really..........it works
 
Dave
Logged

inertia

  • Guest
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2015, 11:34:22 PM »

Klunk
Sounds very much like the power FETs (or transistors) have indeed died. The HX version does have BEC. I don't know what Electronize's repair service is like these days - Stavros will no doubt tell you of his experiences!
Dave M
Logged

malcolmfrary

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,427
  • Location: Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2015, 09:52:30 AM »

It is a reasonably simple job to get to the output transistor.  If it is a BUZ11, they are available from RS at a low enough price to be worth a punt before binning them and going for more modern ones.
Logged
"Trying is the first step towards failure" - Homer (Simpson)

inertia

  • Guest
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2015, 10:02:14 AM »

I remember the last (and only) time I took one of these things apart. Fitting a new output transistor was relatively straightforward but getting the thing back together was an absolute nightmare! You need at least three hands with two pairs of tweezers and double-jointed thumbs to hold all the spacers and holes in alignment while you try to get the screw in place. The manufacturer must have a special jig for the job.
Never again!
Curiously I can't find any reference to buying these ESCs in kit form any longer. I did once build one and it worked, but it was a very complicated thing c/w say an ACTion P79.
DM
Logged

John W E

  • I see no ships !!
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,505
  • Location: South shields
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2015, 10:34:25 AM »

Hi ya Malc

I believe you find that the BUZ11 is the output transistor that Maplins used in their little kit and I think its only rated at 30 amp, not so long ago I myself repaired a couple of Electronize speed controllers which I was kindly given by Martin Mayhem :-) and I used the output transit or IRFZ44N also my dear friend Davey Mil (Electronize still do one kit for the speed controller but you have to ring them and ask for it - they make it up specially for you).
aye
john
Logged

malcolmfrary

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,427
  • Location: Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2015, 09:09:08 AM »

When I built my Maplin one I'm pretty sure it was a bipolar type, probably a TIP3055, rated for 10A, good for 5A in the real world.  I know that it's still lying around somewhere, when I find it I'll have a look if I can remember why I wanted to see it again.  Specifications may have changed later as well.  Obviously replacing like for like is the easiest way to get from a broken item to a working one, but, provided that it fits in the same place with the same pin placements, there is no reason why a more modern device should not be used, especially if it has better performance or is cheaper or more easily available.
The really important thing is to figure what killed it in the first place.  Apart from overwork, the commonest thing that I ran into was the owner thinking it could be connected like a Bobs Board.  Connecting the battery to the output terminals is not recommended, nor is any other random connection combination.
Do the motors just run full forward or reverse with no neutral?  If so, it means that either the output transistor is shorted, internally or externally, or it is being instructed to be switched on.
Logged
"Trying is the first step towards failure" - Homer (Simpson)

Klunk

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,564
  • If you know who I am, please remind me!!
  • Location: luton, beds
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2015, 10:00:53 AM »

I can switch it to forward or reverse while trying to get neutral via the pot.
Logged
SECRETARY - LUTON AND DISTRICT MODEL BOAT CLUB
WARWICK IS AROUND THE CORNER........WHO IS UP FOR TRICKS ON PHIL?

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,528
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2015, 10:18:58 AM »

We have a lot of Electronize in our models, in fact all our big boats have them, we've only had a couple go do-hicky- possibly caused by me attaching the power leads the wrong way round!
We have used the repair service offered by Electronize and found it to be decent enough as a service, a quote was offered and was at the time quite reasonable to repair our 43HX's, that was however about four years ago but he is a helpful man to talk to and he did suggest some alternative versions of his product which would suit our needs better. Personally I'd ring him up for at least a quote or possible solutions before scrapping them.
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

John W E

  • I see no ships !!
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,505
  • Location: South shields
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2015, 10:51:18 AM »

Hi there Klunk

definitely ring Electronize up and speak to them for it to be repaired.    If its the old type with the 'old' ZN409 chip in it - they may suggest you condemn it to the bin.  But, please don't do that - as one or two of us may be able to sort this out for you.   

My dear friend Malc, you are quite correct about the Maplins output transistor - the BUZ11 one - which I was thinking of was used in the speed controller which came from the Electronic Book - Electronics Projects for Model Boats buy Ken Ginn ISBN Number: 1-85-486-033-X - I wonder if Ken is still about as he did some interesting projects in the book, which I have built in the past.

aye

John

Logged

malcolmfrary

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,427
  • Location: Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2015, 04:00:44 PM »

I can switch it to forward or reverse while trying to get neutral via the pot.
So either the output transistor is internally shorted, or there is a short on the board (can't just remember where the protection diode is wired in, but I suspect that it isn't a factor here) or a faulty component is causing the transistor to switch on.  It requires a bit of digging to determine which, or help from Electronize.
Logged
"Trying is the first step towards failure" - Homer (Simpson)

Stavros

  • Guest
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2015, 08:15:40 PM »

In My proffesional opinion it is FURBARRED Klunk dont waste your time and money sending things back to them,they are usless ....I sent back 4 units to be repaired 2 under warranty,I was told over the phone that I had connected the pos neg the wrong way around and didn't matter if I sent them to him or not they wouldn't be repaired without me paying as his so called G'tee didn't cover and I QUOTE ...BLITHERING INCOMPETENT MODEL BOATERS........that is exactly what he said to me FACT not fiction......I sent them up to him over 10 years now and STILL HAVEN'T SEEN THEM. He DENIES ever having them sent up to him and yet I have PROOF of him recieving them >>>FACT.
 
Klunk dont waste your time and money with him, go elsewhere...PLENTY of decent manufacterers out there who WILL HONOUR their G'tee and have a repair service WHICH WORKS
 
 
In MY opinion but new and not that companies
 
Dave
Logged

Bill D203

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,974
  • not long now!!
  • Location: Sunny Stevenage
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2015, 08:31:48 PM »

A member bought a tug during the week. inside were 2 x electronize controllers. he could not get any control over the motors, they either went full ahead or full astern. summary next
2 motors controlled via tank steering on the tx

1 x 43hx
1 x 43x
I believe the 43 hx has the BEC on it as there is a switch to turn it on.
planet t5 tx/rx
i have tried to set it to neutral but to no avail, although the relay does switch to reverse.
I think the main transistor is dead to cause this. Could anyone confirm this, or offer an alternative thesis!


I took one apart. The output transistor is feed into the rev /fwr relay. You may well be able to here the relay click in and out and you may well see power from the output transistor however the relay contacts give up the go and burn out. mine had a rating of 45 amp but how do you pass that current though a relay with 8 amp rating im not sure?
Logged
Roll On Mayday. Im off for a pint.   How Much!!!   WHEN do you need it!     No dear!    Yes dear??   Wot Now???  soon to be EX Chairman SMBC

inertia

  • Guest
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2015, 08:52:49 AM »

Bill
The relay is rated to switch an instant current of 8A i.e. the current which will pass at the instant when the relay contacts close without arcing. Once closed, the contacts are able to pass a higher current. For example, the relay in the P80 is rated at 8A but the ESC will happily run @ 20A all day. This is because at the moment when the relay contacts change over there is no current - the motor is momentarily stopped as it goes from forward to reverse.
Klunk
If the motors actually run at full speed either one way or the other then there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the relay contacts - it's the output device which is U/S. Repairs are generally much cheaper than replacing the item, although there may be a delay while the repairs are done. Ten years isn't reasonable, however! This guy has a good reputation http://www.modelradioworkshop.co.uk/servicing
Dave M
Logged

Liverbudgie

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,147
  • Model Boat Mayhem is the Best!
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2015, 11:56:34 AM »

I have used Electronze controllers for the best part of twenty years and I've never had less than first class service from the company; they are used in all my large models and I've never had a failure yet. The only time I did have problems was when I reviewed one of the DIY examples and made a complete testicles of it! They fixed for now't as well.

LB
Logged

inertia

  • Guest
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2015, 01:02:42 PM »

LB
You clearly take better care of your ESCs than the geezer who sold the tug to Klunk's mate.
Electronize speed controllers have an enviable reputation for being almost bullet-proof but there are some folk who, as Malcolm says, shouldn't be let anywhere near them.
In my experience at least 50% of the speed controllers sent to us for repair are found to be working perfectly while most of the others have been either overloaded or connected up wrongly.  It's always easy to spot this sort of abuse, in spite of any amount of pleading innocence. Only in a very few cases has there been any doubt concerning a faulty component (usually the relay).
While I won't comment on what might be considered a reasonable period for doing repairs I can say that I aim to turn around those sent to us on the same day as they are received. The owner might need the thing for the following weekend and I don't want the blame if he has to wait longer!
DM
Logged

John W E

  • I see no ships !!
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,505
  • Location: South shields
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2015, 05:10:37 PM »

Who was it who said 'Electronics will happily tick along 99% of the time without going wrong - for years on end - its only when a human gets involved that everything goes wrong'

 :D :D :D :D :D

 {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)

aye

John
Logged

jarvo

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 681
  • Etherow model boat club
  • Location: Bredbury Stockport Cheshire
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2015, 07:08:57 PM »

HI Klunk


Any ESC if used or teated badly will fail. Also an ESC will fail just cause it can.

I have 5 Electronize ESC no problems, (fingers crossed now) they work well, i also have some chinese ESC's which Inertia hat's with a vengeance, work well for me.

Send your faulty ESC to Electronize let them give you a quote for repair.

Mark

Moderated - no derogatory remarks about other forum members please.   <*<
Logged
Tugs are for pulling

Martin [Admin]

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,747
  • Location: Peterborough, UK
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2015, 09:47:00 AM »


I've had no problems with Electronize speed controllers.
Bit old fashioned by today's  standards maybe but robust and reliable.
Don't let them get wet....
Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"    -   Mayhem FaceBook Group!

Klunk

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,564
  • If you know who I am, please remind me!!
  • Location: luton, beds
Re: electronize x 2
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2015, 09:51:30 AM »

Well they will not be thrown away as I am sure they can be repaired. I just needed to know where to look. I think k I'm going in the right direction now
Logged
SECRETARY - LUTON AND DISTRICT MODEL BOAT CLUB
WARWICK IS AROUND THE CORNER........WHO IS UP FOR TRICKS ON PHIL?
Pages: [1]   Go Up