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Author Topic: model paint that can be used with lacquer  (Read 5029 times)

cos918

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model paint that can be used with lacquer
« on: April 14, 2015, 09:55:13 PM »

Hi All
At the moment I am rebuilding my ferry Celestine . I am now painting her with Halfords spray cans. Once the spray painting is done there are water slide transfers to put on which would need to be sealed with lacquer . Here is were I am not sure what to do . There are some parts of the boat that will need to be hand painted which I would have like to do before the lacquer is put down . I don't want to get a reaction between the spray lacquer and the hand paint   . Is there a model paint brand that can be used with spray Lacquer ?


john
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Brian60

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Re: model paint that can be used with lacquer
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2015, 07:20:45 PM »

The easiest way to do this would be do the handpainting- I'm assuming enamels like Humbrol? Apply the decals and then spray the laquer, but not Halfords cellulose/acrylic clearcoat. Humbrol do their matt. satin and gloss clearcoats in spray cans.

The rule of thumb is enamel over cellulose/acrylic no problem, cellulose over enamel and it will craze and crack and ripple.

cos918

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Re: model paint that can be used with lacquer
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2015, 07:50:04 PM »

I was hopping to use acrylic hand paints like revell etc . would these be effected by lacquer?
You mention not to use Halfords cellulose /acrylic clearcoat is this different to halfords lacquer?


john
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Brian60

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Re: model paint that can be used with lacquer
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2015, 07:58:00 PM »

clearcoat is just another name for laquer- particularly used in the car industry and by professional painters, because clearcoat can mean any number of paint types. Laquer by definition is a substance from olden times when shellac was used to coat furniture, but has come to mean a clear coat of protective layer.

The only way to find out if your halfords clearcoat will affect the brushed acrylics, be they Tamiys, Humbrol, Mig. Vallejo or any number of others is to paint some on to a flat surface (cardboard will do) let it dry and then give a spray of your clear coat to see if there is any reaction.

To be fair in the plastic model world, acrylics are allowed to dry and can be overpainted with any number of other systems. frm artists oils to enamels. The one exception as I mentioned is no cellulose or other car paint over them as the first layers will crack and craze.

Colin Bishop

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Re: model paint that can be used with lacquer
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2015, 07:59:04 PM »

It's all a bit problematical really. If you stick to the same manufacturer you are usually OK but if not then all bets are off and you need to rely on test pieces. Sometimes it is OK but other times you can run into trouble. The problem with acrylics is that different manufacturers use different solvents and they don't always agree with each other! I don't think that cellulose paints are generally on sale these days which is why paint chips on cars are becoming a lot more common!

Colin
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Re: model paint that can be used with lacquer
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2015, 08:04:52 PM »

Cellulose lacquers are still very much available, and decent car paint shop will sell you lacquers.

You should be able to use 2k lacquer over acrylics, but you need to take precautions when spraying this stuff, as it contains a lot of nasties. Jawal paints sell 2k lacquer which is mixed as a 1k lacquer, this doesn't contain so many nasties (it's the hardener in 2k lacquer that contains the really nasty stuff), but it dioesn't dry quite as hard as the 2k lacquer.

Colin Bishop

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Re: model paint that can be used with lacquer
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2015, 08:23:09 PM »

Subculture,

A problem with modern cars is that the paint finishes are water based and therefore soft thereby making them vulnerable to paint chips, There are innumerable complaints about this on car forums.

Are you saying that body shops can substitute harder cellulose finishes?

Colin
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cos918

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Re: model paint that can be used with lacquer
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2015, 08:51:59 PM »

thank you for the the reply. I will do some test on scrap material with different lacquers and paints and see what works


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Re: model paint that can be used with lacquer
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2015, 09:05:06 PM »

Water is only used as a carrier. The finish is still a resin based paint and I find modern paint finishes are far tougher and more durable than old fashioned paints like cellulose which needed constant care to keep in tip top condition.

The snag with 2k finishes is that they can be more difficult to cut in, plus they're more toxic so less well suited to home spraying.

There are different formulations for 2k, many of whom are not water based at all, especially if they're aimed at refinsihing rather than products used in manufacturing.

Stavros

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Re: model paint that can be used with lacquer
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2015, 09:13:04 PM »

But the Biggest joke is of all this water based malarkey is that Yes the actual base coat used is of course water based this is obviously to minimise the voc content going into the atmosphere BUT the Biggest joke of all is that the Lacquer that has to go over this is a 2k one thus defeating the process of water based paints.
 
Colin a lot of pooh pooh is voiced on various care forums about this paint,trouble is it depends on what Make of paint the car manufacturer uses some are really soft others are hard.
 
Dave
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Colin Bishop

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Re: model paint that can be used with lacquer
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2015, 09:53:31 PM »

Dave,

That is interesting. My current car is a Mazda 6 (as was the previous one) and they do seem to suffer quite badly from paint chips plus in the country lanes around here the bushes at the side of the road can very easily cause scratches although they do usually polish out. Like most people I have a metallic finish which should mean a hard lacquer on top of the base coat but I'm not sure that it actually works out that way. Mazda paint finish is also considered to be quite thin as well which doesn't help things.

Are you able to say which cars are better protected?

Colin
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Stavros

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Re: model paint that can be used with lacquer
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2015, 10:09:07 PM »

No sorry Colin not even going to go down that road
 
 
Dave
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derekwarner

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Re: model paint that can be used with lacquer
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2015, 12:34:21 AM »

At one stage my dear wife owned a two toned iridescent [silver/blue] Nissan Pulsar  ........stone chips everywhere >>:-(........the young lady in the local Pharmacy questioned why I wanted to take 4 silver toned & 4 bluish toned bottles of finger nail polish out to the carpark to get the best match  {-)

The nail polish liquid certainly contained acetone.......& the product dried with an incredible hardness  :o...sufficient to allow a cutting polish to be used after a few weeks......

Super cheap @ only $2.50 per bottle........ O0.......... Derek
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Re: model paint that can be used with lacquer
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2015, 09:51:55 AM »

I have a Mini Cooper S, which is now almost 13 years old. The paint still looks as fresh as a daisy, and the car has never been garaged. I don't like metallic paint finishes, so my car is a bright red with a white roof

BMW use a base and clear coat system, but comparing this won't help you at all, as the chemical formulations used in manufacturing are different to those used for refinishing.

If you use a 2K lacquer system, it will be much tougher than anything you will find in your local model shop or Halfrauds. However you need to wear an air fed mask when spraying it, else you'll do your lungs in, and you should also take care to paint it in an area where other people aren't likely to breath in the fumes too.
Low baking the finish in a hot box would enhance the cured properties.

Geoff C

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Re: model paint that can be used with lacquer
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2015, 06:39:06 PM »

We seem to have a gift of wondering off the original subject, don't we.          However,   I've used Humbrol satin spray over Humbrol enamel paint and it crazed.     So the answer is Test Everything First.
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Re: model paint that can be used with lacquer
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2015, 01:36:34 PM »

Why don't you just brush paint using halfords paint, then clear coat with their lacquers, then you get to keep it all one system.
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