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Author Topic: Towing  (Read 5876 times)

Fastfaz

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Towing
« on: April 28, 2015, 05:19:41 PM »

  Hi all,
       I have a decision to make and would like advice. I want to build a tug for towing and have the final list down to two tugs they are the MMM "Eldergarth" and "Portgarth" both twin screw which I have never built before and I would like you responses as to which to choose. I would also like opinions on whether to go 12v T12 motors or 24v T24's. Whichever one I choose (going to Brian's open day to collect) I need feedback quickly so that I can ring Brian and let him know my decision. Thanks for your help and advice.
     Keep on tugging!
           Cheers, Peter/Faz. :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
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Capt Jack

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Re: Towing
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2015, 06:27:03 PM »

After having both tugs, I would go for the Portgarth if I had to choose and 12volt motors.
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tugnut

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Re: Towing
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2015, 07:32:26 PM »

PORTGARTH :-)) 12v
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mrturbo553

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Re: Towing
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2015, 08:18:01 PM »

Pete , come and find me at Brian's do . There's normally a small pool / pond there and have a go with my portgarth . Balnemoor mbc should be there as far as I know .
Aid  :-))
Ps same as buying a motorcycle , you bend it ,you buy it   {-)
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Fastfaz

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Re: Towing
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2015, 08:50:54 PM »

Yo Mr Turbo,
      PM sent.
            Cheers, Pete/Faz  :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
             
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poll

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Re: Towing
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2015, 08:02:28 PM »


   Hi Pete.
   Don't spend any money till you see the man  (  mr Turbo )

   John
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mrturbo553

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Re: Towing
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2015, 09:06:15 PM »

Awww Poll you'll make me blush  :embarrassed:
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deepstar

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Re: Towing
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2015, 11:49:41 AM »

what type 12 v motors would you recommend
robbe 1000
mmm t12
buhler
graupner 95
etc
???????????
deepstar
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Calimero

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Re: Towing
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2015, 12:39:33 PM »

None of the above: go brushless.


Smaller, easier to install, more efficient and in the end probably cheaper too.
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mrturbo553

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Re: Towing
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2015, 12:49:07 PM »

None of the above: go brushless.


Smaller, easier to install, more efficient and in the end probably cheaper too.


Calimero , can you give me an example  of a good quality set up to replace the mobile marine models t12 motors and microgyro fr40 speedos , 70mm diameter props
Thanks Aid
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Calimero

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Re: Towing
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2015, 02:04:25 PM »

Assuming 2500 rpm at the shaft, I'd go with 6V SLA batteries and something like that: Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 - 4250-410kv Brushless Outrunner Motor

And a car ESC like these:
Turnigy TrackStar 1/10th Scale 60A Car ESC Version 2

HobbyKing Brushless Car ESC 60A w/ Reverse
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mrturbo553

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Re: Towing
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2015, 02:10:22 PM »

Cheers for the info , but what's the idea of running 6 volts ?
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Calimero

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Re: Towing
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2015, 02:47:09 PM »

Being able to use cheaper motors.


Slower BL motors are usually built with large planes in mind. They're usually bigger than what we need. Running at 6V only let's us use slightly faster motors which as easier to find.


Robbe on the other hand has (had ?) a range of slow BLDC. As low as 100kv. But not in the same price range ...
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Fastfaz

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Re: Towing
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2015, 04:47:10 PM »

Hi Deepstar,
     Are you trying to off load the buellhers?
               Cheers, Faz.
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Fastfaz

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Re: Towing
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2015, 04:52:56 PM »

Hi Calimero,
    Brushless in a tug? I had (very briefly) a Yorkshireman with a pair of 700's installed on 12 volts you could have waterskied behind it even on 6 volts it was no more than half throttle or it looked silly. I would love to see a tug with brushless sailing something like they should sail i.e. bow still in the water, but hey what do I know? Can't wait for the responses.
     Cheers, Faz.
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Klunk

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Re: Towing
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2015, 07:23:05 PM »

Brushless doesnt  mean fast. Lower the kv and you get torque which is what you require in a tug. Choosing the correct motor is the hard bit as it is still a grey area in model boats
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poll

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Re: Towing
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2015, 09:49:34 PM »

Hi Calimero,
    Brushless in a tug? I had (very briefly) a Yorkshireman with a pair of 700's installed on 12 volts you could have waterskied behind it even on 6 volts it was no more than half throttle or it looked silly. I would love to see a tug with brushless sailing something like they should sail i.e. bow still in the water, but hey what do I know? Can't wait for the responses.
     Cheers, Faz.

   Hi Faz.
   Here you have a two man team, this is a rare site to see these two tugs working together, the Kestrel is on brushless 11.1 kv driving
   shottles,on 6v. tractor tugs. Osprey same drives working on standard 6v  motors.

   John 
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Fastfaz

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Re: Towing
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2015, 09:42:29 AM »

   Hi John,
        Thanks for the photos well impressed. I am hoping to get over to Balne moor later in the year, I would have liked to have attended the June meeting but unfortunately it clashes with our main show (the festival of transport) here in Southport 20/21st June which we have a large marquee full of boats of all shapes and sizes. I will also be going over to Ellesmere to try my hand at this towing malarkee.
       Keep on tugging.
            Pete/Faz :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
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TugCowboy

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Re: Towing
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2015, 10:47:00 AM »

Another vote for the SK3 410KV here.
Excellent brushless motor at a fantastic price.

Alex
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Fastfaz

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Re: Towing
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2015, 01:44:14 PM »

Hi all,
    Thanks for the replies, can anyone explain the brushless thingy to me? i.e.  SK3 410KV brushless motor brushless ESC (which one? model number please) and how good performance wise would they be in a twin screw twin esc set up turning 60mm props in steerable Korts as in the Portgarth I am buying from MMM compared to twin T12s twin ESCs running on 12 volt lead acid (price etc). Help please as I intend to purchase all the bits on Brians open day. Thanks guys.
       Keep on tugging,
            Pete/Faz :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
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TugCowboy

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Re: Towing
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2015, 02:39:48 PM »

Hi Pete,

Not sure if you'll be able to get any of the bits at the MMM open day, to my knowledge they only deal in brushed.

Brushless motors are a bit of a new thing to the marine side of RC but have made great inroads in other RC models, as well as most electronically controlled, motorised items available.
It's my firm belief that it will be the future though.

Brushless motors are generally smaller and use less power than their brushed counterparts and, in time, will probably become the norm.
I have found they give excellent torque and much more prolonged runtimes with lower levels of heat buildup.  Really the only downside for anyone who wants to become an early adopter now is that supplies are generally limited to online retailers only and sometimes using speed controllers etc that might be more aimed at the RC car market etc.

Alex
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Calimero

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Re: Towing
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2015, 04:56:23 PM »

Hi Calimero,
    Brushless in a tug? I had (very briefly) a Yorkshireman with a pair of 700's installed on 12 volts you could have waterskied behind it even on 6 volts it was no more than half throttle or it looked silly. I would love to see a tug with brushless sailing something like they should sail i.e. bow still in the water, but hey what do I know? Can't wait for the responses.


This isn't a brushless vs brushed motor issue. That's just a matter of getting the right motor for the job.


You could very well turn a tug into an offshore boat with brushed motors too.
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Calimero

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Re: Towing
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2015, 05:02:27 PM »

    Thanks for the replies, can anyone explain the brushless thingy to me? i.e.  SK3 410KV brushless motor brushless ESC (which one? model number please) and how good performance wise would they be in a twin screw twin esc set up turning 60mm props in steerable Korts as in the Portgarth I am buying from MMM compared to twin T12s twin ESCs running on 12 volt lead acid (price etc). Help please as I intend to purchase all the bits on Brians open day. Thanks guys.

There are lots of BLDC motors to choose from. That's probably what confuses people. In the past, we relied on the poor offering of major distributors (Graupner, Robbe and such). You were essentially stuck with motors that some guy decided was appropriate for all your needs.

But choosing a BL motor for scale applications isn't that complicated. Power probably won't be an issue - as BL motors usually offer much more power than  brushed motors. The main criteria when choosing a setup for a scale boat will be the target speed (RPM). Once you have that information choosing the right motor (and choosing between 6V SLA, 12V SLA ...) is quite straightforward.
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mrturbo553

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Re: Towing
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2015, 07:53:39 PM »

Another vote for the SK3 410KV here.
Excellent brushless motor at a fantastic price.

Alex


Has anybody on the forum actually got these in a decent sized tug ?
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Howard

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Re: Towing
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2015, 08:22:20 PM »

Mr Turbo,
 why not call in at Goole Model Boat Club, and ask the lads what there use thay,ll make you very welcome.
               Regards Howard.
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