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Author Topic: Billings Fairmount Alpine  (Read 6867 times)

nmbrook

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Billings Fairmount Alpine
« on: May 26, 2015, 04:30:43 PM »

First a bit of an introduction.I started building wooden models around 30 years ago.My first was Mary Ann by Billings boats and it was a bit of a disaster and a very steep learning curve for a 13 year old {:-{
I have had a big break from RC models,concentrating on building period ships.I did however want to build this vessel since Billings introduced the kit.Seeing the kit on the shelf during many visits to my local model shop and the fact of the troubles Billings are currently experiencing,I took the plunge.I do have some catching up to do with this log as I currently have over fifty photos of my progress.
It is a nice change to be working with different materials,I have been working in Pear,boxwood and ebony for a long time.Many small alterations are planed to improve scale fidelity of the kit and add more detail,along with several working features.
Just to show what I have been up to previously,among other projects,I have a Panart Royal Caroline 'on the go'.I include a few pictures but from now on everything will concentrate on Fairmount.


Kind Regards


Nigel
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Netleyned

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2015, 04:44:16 PM »

Welcome to Mayhem.
The Alpine will be a doddle after the build in the photos :-)) :-))

Ned
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nmbrook

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2015, 04:57:28 PM »

Thank you Ned :-) Someone quoted around 400 hours for an out of the box build for Fairmount,I have around 1500 hours in Caroline so far with probably the same again fitting out and rigging %) .
The first few pics are fairly run of the mill stuff except altering the keel to take a working stern thruster and the fact I pinned the hull bottom sheets to a flat board and built the framework on top.I also added soft softwood battening to the bottom as I planned on removing alot of the skeleton to accommodate the hardware and also plan on detailing the winch room including working tow winches.


Kind Regards


Nigel
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Brian60

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2015, 05:02:06 PM »

Well I'm looking forward to following this build. With your attention to detail in the photo's of your other builds, I can see a lot of detail being added to the Fairmont.

david48

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2015, 08:06:24 PM »

Hi Nigel
I am also building Fairmount Alpine as is mark T. I see form your post you are planning a working whinch ,if you plan to keep it low and inside the hull as it  is in the real thing ,just to flag up the room in there is a bit tight because of the battery . I will be useing  2 SLE 12v 9 amp hr this only leaves a gap between them of about 30mm .So battery choice might need a bit of thought .
I have tried to post pictures of my build on here before sometime it works most of the time it does not ,I am haveing ongoing computer glitches .
Any questions just send me a PM
David
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nmbrook

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2015, 08:27:02 AM »

Well I'm looking forward to following this build. With your attention to detail in the photo's of your other builds, I can see a lot of detail being added to the Fairmont.
Thank you Brian,yes lots of additions planned ok2


Kind Regards


Nigel
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nmbrook

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2015, 08:35:01 AM »


Hi David,in my next update,you will see how much material has been removed from the inside of the skeleton in what will be the battery compartment.This means the base of the batteries will sit just 20mm above the underside of the hull.I have purchased two brushless motors that will run through 2:1 belt drive reductions.I intend to use either two 6volt SLA batteries in series or 11.1v LiPos

Kind Regards
 Nigel


Hi Nigel
I am also building Fairmount Alpine as is mark T. I see form your post you are planning a working whinch ,if you plan to keep it low and inside the hull as it  is in the real thing ,just to flag up the room in there is a bit tight because of the battery . I will be useing  2 SLE 12v 9 amp hr this only leaves a gap between them of about 30mm .So battery choice might need a bit of thought .
I have tried to post pictures of my build on here before sometime it works most of the time it does not ,I am haveing ongoing computer glitches .
Any questions just send me a PM
David

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Brian60

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2015, 10:44:25 AM »

Nigel I do have to ask, you say you have removed much of the 'skeleton' as you put it.

How did you achieve that? From what I have seen of the kit their is a lot of timberwork support inside the hull. Did you premark it for cutting once assembled or did you cut it all to size ie removed it before assembly? I'm just thinking once the hull is built it is difficult to get cutting tools inside.

nmbrook

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2015, 04:22:31 PM »

My next few pictures should answer a few questions.Because the hull had decks in place and I have added strengthening to the ribs adjacent to the weakest area around where the towing apertures are,the frame remains torsionally rigid.Care will be required when introducing the hull skins to the sides.These will be fitted much later than advocated in the instructions.This gives me room and visibility for provisional installation of the driveline components and to apply epoxy coating to the underside of the deck and upper inner surfaces of the hull.
The framework was taken flush with added battens in the bottom using a combination of Proxxon rotary tool and sanding pad in the electric drill after the inside face of the hull bottom was given two coats of finishing epoxy.Then the bottom was covered with a ply base(necessary to fit in two halves).This base was covered in Epoxy underneath,then abraded so it could be epoxied into the hull bottom.
I added two thin ply skins to the battery compartment against the skeleton sides.This is to maintain strength and also to provide a flat well for the batteries to fit against.


Kind Regards


Nigel
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nmbrook

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2015, 04:29:55 PM »

You will notice in the above pics I have started to skin the ply with thin ABS sheathing.This not only makes for easier painting,but allows for easier adhesion of thinner bulwark supports made from ABS.I felt that the 2mm ply items were vastly overscale.Not only that,looking at many pics of the original,there is a vast amount of vents and pipework in this area.Strength should not be an issue once the hull is 'glassed' on the outside.


Kind Regards


Nigel
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Brian60

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2015, 06:00:43 PM »

You are taking the same route as I have with my seahunter build. Any timberwork on the outside, decks etc I have covered in plasticard. When it comes to paint you can never hide the grain in wood sufficiently to get it to look like steel. Although with the rear cargo rail on my build I have used brass tube and sheet soldered rather than going the plastic route.

nmbrook

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2015, 08:22:58 AM »

That is interesting Brian,I have purchased ABS tube for both the top edge of the bulwark and the cage on the deck.I have some brass tube which slides inside.Idea being with the two together,I can bend the radii and it should hold the shape.I haven't quite got to the stage yet to put theory into practice %)


Kind Regards


Nigel
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david48

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2015, 10:24:48 AM »


Hi Nigel
End grains a pain,I used UPol polyester TopStop ,just a thin skim and rubbed back dry with 800 then 1200 paper. I tried to do this through the build but some bits did get missed hyphen had to do it at the painting stage .
David
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nmbrook

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2015, 12:06:07 AM »

Hi David
I have had great success with zap finishing resin.Three thinned coats with a light sanding in between gives a glass like finish.Hardest thing with all techniques is maintaining crisp sharp corners which is why I chose a different route this time around.


I next did a mockup of the drivetrain on the bench(or kitchen worktop in this case :} )The motors are Leopard 4250s 550KV.The belt drive parts and bearing pillow blocks are from motionco.co.uk.I made the mounting plate from 4mm perspex which incorpates snug holes for the ballrace housings on the Raboesch shafts.The pillowblocks will be bolted to the hull baseplate.Holes are still to add for the wiring and mounting bolts.I will no doubt replace the supplied M3 motor mounting bolts with stainless ones.


Kind Regards


Nigel
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Brian60

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2015, 07:39:19 AM »

Its interesting that you are going with brushless drives. What made you choose that over the standard methods for tugs? Do you have knowledge of them? I ask because I was seeking information on another forum for doing the same, and the consensus there was that brushless would not give sufficient low rev control in a tug application- bear in mind this was not a boat forum but a car forum where brushless are the norm.

Mark T

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2015, 09:38:56 AM »

Hi Nigel what a great approach you have to this build.  I really like the way you have completely dropped the floor which should also make it more stable but also the plan to skin it later.  Looking back these are very good ideas which I had never even thought about.  Good luck with the build I think this is going to look and go brilliantly  :-))

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2015, 11:31:53 AM »


I know we're going off topic a bit here ( we can split topic retrospectively ), but 'brushless' is the "norm" in higher end model cars anyway, so how do they do it? Especially the 'Rock Crawler' cars where low end torque is everything.....  'sensored' motors?!?
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Brian60

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2015, 01:03:57 PM »

Martin the rock crawler guys tend to use brushed motors with anything from 20 to 70 winding on the shaft- they all seem to wind their own, albeit motors with these various windings are available. This is what I was referring to when I mentioned on a car forum above.

nmbrook

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2015, 01:17:20 PM »

Hi Nigel what a great approach you have to this build.  I really like the way you have completely dropped the floor which should also make it more stable but also the plan to skin it later.  Looking back these are very good ideas which I had never even thought about.  Good luck with the build I think this is going to look and go brilliantly  :-))


Thank you Mark :-) .I am surprised how few build logs there are of our kit on the the net in general,given how well it builds up,even straight out of the box.I have to fess up,I am following your lead in using MMM kort nozzles.Not overly enamored with the flexible kit offerings :-))
Kind Regards


Nigel

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Mark T

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2015, 01:41:22 PM »

Good choice Nigel they take a little bit of fettling but they do fit nicely.  I used 50mm korts with 45mm props.

nmbrook

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2015, 01:42:05 PM »

This is my first foray into brushless.I did spend a great deal of time on research before making a selection.I went this route because the choice of available brushed motors has diminished drastically with Graupner's and Robbe's troubles.720bb turbos would have been the easy choice,just try buy a pair new now >>:-(
What I have found as regards brushless is the following;
Most cars use inrunners,most off the shelf motors are high revving,low torque.Great for fast electric boats,not ideal for tugs.
Outrunners have more torque than the above and to generalize more torque than the equivalent brushed motor of size and weight.T24 brushed motors from Mobile Marine Models would be great,but weigh over double that of my choice.There just isn't enough displacement in this model to allow me to fit them.
From other forums,I have learnt that speed controller selection is paramount for low rev control of these motors.Choice is limited for marine applications,I am opting for Mtronics G2s as they offer full forward and reverse control without a 'brake',common in ones for car applications.Many controllers are for aeroplanes,no reverse %) .
This is a very scaled down synopsis of my research,There is more to it than just this,but don't want to run into pages.
Obviously the only proof is in the pudding as they say,however I am confident that I have made the correct choice,if anything,the model will have more torque than I will ever need.


Kind Regards


Nigel
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nmbrook

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2015, 01:50:29 PM »

Good choice Nigel they take a little bit of fettling but they do fit nicely.  I used 50mm korts with 45mm props.
I purchased the Raboesch 50mm four blade kort props before the nozzles.Dennis at MMM said his 50mm nozzles would be too small for these props.I was prepared to put the props on the rotary table of the miller and machine a little off the blade tips,however they do fit now I have tried them :-))


Kind Regards


Nigel
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Brian60

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2015, 08:56:29 AM »

I've posted this on both the Alpine builds, its focsl detail from the actual ship, just in case you wanted to go that far

nmbrook

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Re: Billings Fairmount Alpine
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2016, 02:47:45 PM »

First of all,apologies for my absence.Lots of projects have been put on hold due to moving house and relocating nearer to my work.Yesterday I cracked the box open on Alpine and resumed work on her.Suprisingly it is not taking much to get my head around where I was up to(I do keep telling myself to make notes as I go along incase of a layoff,but that never seems to happen %) ).
Whilst I do have some period ship projects on the go as well,I would like to get Alpine's hull done and in paint with running gear fitted and operational whilst we have the decent weather.One thing I have lost in the move is my heated insulated workshop,I have a cold damp garage now for the messy stuff and a spare bedroom for the cleaner work >>:-( .


Thank you for the pic Brian,that will come in,as I am adding more detail to the standard kit.It is good to see that there are a couple more builds of this Billings kit on the go.


Kind Regards


Nigel




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