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Author Topic: Electrimagicians, is this possible?  (Read 2381 times)

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Electrimagicians, is this possible?
« on: June 05, 2015, 07:11:26 AM »


Hello all you electrimagicians......!
I can build but unfortunately I can hardly wire a plug.

I am hoping to install a smoke unit into my boat (bought, not self made or it would definitely smoke!) it is a 12v unit. I am also thinking about fitting a sound unit.


My questions are.....

1.  If I have a variable output smoke unit which is linked to the throttle and therefore the receiver can I have a separate 12v system to actually power the unit?

2.  Could I switch the smoke unit on and off via my transmitter if it is connected to a separate 12v system?

3.  I have lipo batteries but seeing as I will need a 12v system for the smoker could I do away with the lipo and just run on 12v?     If so..........

4.  Could I connect 2 or more 12v batteries together to give power for longer?

5.  Could I have both a sound and smoke unit connected to the same channel as the throttle without turning my receiver into a smoke unit?


Thanks for answering any or all these questions in advance but please remember ''I am but a simple wood butcher.."..
 Thank you!   U2
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Electrimagicians, is this possible?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2015, 07:34:50 AM »

 
First step, have a read of Dave's article:  But I don't understand Electronics!

http://www.modelboats.co.uk/news/article/but-i-don-t-understand-electronics/18054
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Bob K

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Re: Electrimagicians, is this possible?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2015, 07:38:31 AM »

Hi U2.   Two kinds of smoke units, the smaller 'oil' burner, and the larger Mister unit that just uses water.
Easy to make mister units variable as you can get them with a fan which changes speed with your throttle. I use Marks Model Bits.  uses about 0.5A. Does need 24V, but you can get a very compact 12V to 24V voltage booster from Component shop for under ten Pounds.

Batteries, I suggest using 12V.  You can connect two together for longer run times. Connect +ve to +ve, and -ve to -ve.  With this you could power everything off the same battery pair. Keeps it simpler

You can add a RC controlled switcher for the smoke unit, or just have an extra switch under a hatch.

Several sound units available, from small and simple to a larger 'Noisy thing'.  Look for Action on Component Shop web site.  These give sound that varies with motor throttle.  There are some good wiring Diagrams on that site which show you how to wire it all up.

Hope this helps.

Bob K

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Re: Electrimagicians, is this possible?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2015, 09:17:54 AM »

Thanks Martin... I think :o  I just skipped through that "I don't understand electrics" for over an hour and my heads melting........


I'll go back to it but just for 1 thing at a time...."


Thanks also to Bob, I now know I can remotely switch it on and off.... But about running everything off 12v, do you need something to reduce the current to suit a reciever or can a reciever handle 12v? (futaba)
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Calimero

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Re: Electrimagicians, is this possible?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2015, 09:30:52 AM »

What kind of radio are you using U2 ?


I have a smoke unit of my RC Tug. It has a small fan to get good air circulation a huge amounts of smoke (too much for my Diesel tug actually). I power it from the main batteries (two 12Ah 12V SLA batteries) just like everything else on the boat.


I power the smoke unit through a dedicated ESC on a dedicated channel. I'm using a proportional channel (potentiometer) on the remote so that I can set the "idling" speed. And I have a mix on the TX that combines throttle and smoke unit.


I think that once installed you'll see that you don't necessarily want the smoker running at all times (or full power). Some sort of remote control in my mind is really nice.


Using 3S Lipo is usually close enough to power 12V stuff.




PS: this weekend there's "Bateaux en Fêtes" in Massy. Probably too late to register now but there will be over 100 RC boats of all types ! I think I'm mistaking you for another new French member living near Paris. Oops!  %%
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Calimero

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Re: Electrimagicians, is this possible?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2015, 09:32:44 AM »

Thanks also to Bob, I now know I can remotely switch it on and off.... But about running everything off 12v, do you need something to reduce the current to suit a reciever or can a reciever handle 12v? (futaba)


Your ESC will usually have a BEC (battery eliminator circuit) that steps down from 12V to 5V (or 6V) to feed your receiver and servos.


Modern receivers can sometimes go up to 9.6V but 12v will probably fry your receiver.
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john44

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Re: Electrimagicians, is this possible?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2015, 09:45:55 AM »

Hi U2, if your speed controller doesn't have a Bec (battery elimination circuit) component
Shop do small units which I think are upto 24V input from the battery,and a choice of 5 or 6 Volt output
To the reciever with a servo/reciever plug already fitted.


John

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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Electrimagicians, is this possible?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2015, 11:07:52 AM »


Batteries, I suggest using 12V.  You can connect two together for longer run times. Connect +ve to +ve, and -ve to -ve.  With this you could power everything off the same battery pair. Keeps it simpler

Bob K

Make sure that the batteries are identical and same age!
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Steve Dean

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Re: Electrimagicians, is this possible?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2015, 01:10:11 PM »

Let me make a strong recommendation to you. If you are going to use a smoke unit that consumes lots of current (oil burning types take the most current) then use a separate battery for it. That way if it pulls the battery down low then no other functions on the model are effected.

It is easy to use a switch module controlled from a TX/RX channel to turn on the smoke unit but if you want simplicity then just fit an on/off switch in the model.

If you need any further help don't hesitate to ask.
 
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Geoff

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Re: Electrimagicians, is this possible?
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2015, 02:18:56 PM »

Interestingly I'm in the process of building two different smoke generators for two distinct purposes. One using the hot wire and the other a ultrasound mistifier:-
 
The mistifiers used to be available from Maplin for about £20 but they seem to have run out but there are multiple other versions available from Amazon and e-bay. They do indeed need 24 volts to operate. They come with a transformer which kicks out 24 volts AC but they work just as well on 24 v DC but:
 
- Whilst the unit is quite small they do need a decent sizes space above them for the mist to be generated
- They shoot up a good 1.5" column of water in operation and the mist is heavier than air so a small fan will be needed
- They tend to draw less than 0.5 amps but do use the water quickly
- The smoke doesn't hang arround too long
 
 
The electric versions I'm still working on and they do tend to draw anything from 3amps to 6 amps on 12 volts but are capable of producing quite a lot more smoke which hangs around longer so may look better. The key is the thickness of the nichrome wire and the make up of the wick - if too porous you can drown the heat source.
 
As a further thought I'm investigating the use or electronic resistors as the heat source as when loaded thay can produce a lot of heat and if draped with a wick should produce "smoke"
 
In my experience there is no such thing as smoke oil anymore. You can use very thin oil but it can catch fire! Most don't actually make smoke but make fog so use a fog fluid which is not flammable. 5 liters from Maplin for about £25 and that much lasts for years! Believe they also do a 1 litre bottle for about £10.
 
G
 
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Re: Electrimagicians, is this possible?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2015, 09:50:52 PM »

Wow thanks for all the info guys.
Calimero.... thanks for reminding me about mixing different channels (I just never thought of that :embarrassed:) so easy with my transmitter too.

Steve, hi and thanks, I will be using a separate 12v battery for my smoke and sound units (one each on separate systems) for the very reason you mentioned but not fitted to a switch, instead they will be connected to my throttle, or a separate channel mixed with my throttle.

 Geoff, there would be no "might catch fire" if I tried to build something electric it would simply just burn, so I took the easy route and paid through the nose for someone elses efforts. You say yours draws 3-6amps, well mine drew £££££££££ don't tell the OH or ill be in it with no paddle....
A one litre bottle of oil for £10 sounds better than some I have seen though, ill be checking that out. I will be interested to see how you get on with your smoker and mister, keep us updated....

All my recent efforts have been planking the hull, almost there now photos on my "Lena my first boat build" thread... Thanks again    U2

OOps   I almost forgot, my brushless motor has a 40amp esc, but as it was originally an aircraft esc I am not sure it can be set up to go in reverse! If this is possible can someone please tell me how if not could someone please recommend a 40amp esc that will reverse... thanks once more.... U2
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